I may be the only man alive who recalls a NWA DC-3 landing at Fergus Falls in the early 1950s en route to Fargo from MSP. The pilots, when realizing their mistake, didn't stop and proceeded on without stopping to Fargo without telling the company. A passenger, though, turned them in. I was in NWA dispatch then.
Does Ellsworth AFB have military controllers? If so, What were they doing? Sleeping on duty is punishable under the UCMJ. If they had seen a target lined up on their approach course or visually seen an aircraft on final, they should have started asking questions. How can they allow an unknown aircraft touchdown on their base? I believe that Ellsworth is a SAC base, huge breach of security! Time to review the LOA's, OPS letters and FAC memos!
Yes, Ellsworth runs approach control for both the base and RAP. I fly into RAP somewhat regularly, and almost every time you're doing a visual, both approach control and tower remind you of the closeness of Ellsworth. Having flown the visual here many times myself, I find the fact that this happened pretty troubling.
My first base, after school, was March AFB, a Strategic Air Command (SAC) base with B47s, a very dangerous aircraft to crew. We lost 2 of about 50 each year! Even more dangerous was the SAC Commander, Gen. Curtis Lemay (i think). We need some like him now!!!
Not stupid at all, if they requested a visual then ATC would have cut them loose. If they requested a contact approach then ATC would have monitored and provided separation from known IFR traffic. Probably two people looking outside when should have been monitoring the instruments during the approach.
This isn't the first time they've done this, either. well, Perhaps the first time for DAL.
NWA (now part of DAL) did the very same thing back in 2004; was flying into KRAP and landed at KRCA. Because of that, there was a NOTAM distributed warning pilots to verify that they are on final for KRAP.. I guess DAL didn't get the memo..
Amen P.S., electronic backup will save your bacon every time.........assuming you use it (and I hate to say, KNOW how to use it) correctly. Yes, Asiana 214 comes quickly to mind when thinking about knowing how to use it correctly.
Even being established on a published segment of an approach doesn't guarantee anything. Ask the Atlas crew going into McConnell AFB. A little situational awareness goes a long way!
I seem to recall a post from a former ATC in Sacramento relating a number of times he found civilian flights for KSMC lining up on KMCC and advised FLight XYZ turn right to 270 to intersect your approach vector. Not usual, but not unknown.
OOPS! My one adventure with this mistake was richly rewarded when the passengers came walking back out of the fbo chuckling to the tune of "do you know where we are!" At least they were chuckling.
Everyone is quick to ask what pilots are doing and they seem to get the major blame and should as they are in charge of the flight. But the hell were air traffic controllers doing that were responsible for this flight? The flight went off track and landed seven miles from its intended destination and no controller says what are you dong Delta. Before you disagree I am a 34 year retired ATC and wonder how this happens. What were we doing?
I suspect that management at KRAP asked that very question. Interesting comment under 'wrong airport' on AV heralds report on the incident. http://avherald.com/h?article=49adef6e&opt=0
Yes, when you do this on a military base you get a "stop alert" greeting, typically with ARFF vehicles and Security Forces blocking the offender until their intentions can be determined.
Here is another question: Can the aircraft take-off/go-around after touching-down? At some point, the pilots must have seen that row of bombers and realized their mistake while still on the runway, if not prior to touching-down.
I suppose what I am getting at is whether there is a protocol for this kind of thing wherein the pilots have to keep the plane on the ground to be interrogated by the authorities at the base.
Having grown up there, I would have thought they would have recognized the rows of bombers in approach as nor being commercial airliners. They have a very distinctive shape.
This was a long time ago and I remember a PSA night landing at KBUR and tried to land at KWHP. Both have north south runways with similar numbers back then. Thank goodness that didn't happen as the runway was much shorter and the 727 would have sunk into the surface as well as trim everything on either side.
Delta A320 at Rapid City on Jul 7th 2016, landed on wrong airport
A Delta Airlines Airbus A320-200, registration N333NW performing flight DL-2845 from Minneapolis,MN to Rapid City Regional Airport,SD (USA) with 130 passengers, was on approach to Rapid City Regional Airport's [ICAO: KRAP] runway 14 but aligned with Rapid City's Ellsworth Air Force Base's runway 13 and landed safely on the runway of the Air Force Base.
The aircraft remained on the ground for about 2.5 hours, then performed the short hop of about 6nm from Ellsworth [KRCA] to Regional Airport.
The NTSB announced they are investigating the occurrence, when the A320 landed at Ellsworth AFB instead of Rapid City Regional Airport.
On the late evening of June 20, 1980 - A Delta Air Lines 727, bound for Tampa, Florida (TPA), mistakenly lands at MacDill Air Force Base instead. At the bottom of the stairs was a large welcoming group of USAF Security Police and K-9's.
Didn't Delta Airlines do the very same thing a few years prior? I remember an event where a DC9/MD80? landed at MacDill AFB at night. They were met by USAF Security and K9's.
Oops: Some 130 Delta passengers were stuck on the tarmac for hours Thursday night after they were mistakenly taken to a military airport instead of a civilian one.
What happened to the FMS? What happened to the ATC? Tower? Markers? Amazing this happens on this modern day. Also, none of this is in the news. hhhmmmmm.
Following up on my post.....I wonder how does the FAA investigate these incidents. Is it up to the Airline to sanction the pilots and everyone else involved or does it end with the "oops".
It made the news here in Kansas. Especially since a little over 3 years ago, we had a Boeing Dreamlifter land at Jabara Airport, short of McConnell AFB.
A lot of pilots now use mobile devices to learn about the arrival airport. Apparently, Ric thinks the old paper charts were easier to use and understand.
I just thought "Using to navigate" was an interesting term as if the iPad has some control over navigating the airplane. Our airline uses iPads and they are quite useful for charts and makes it much easier to see the whole picture and flip between charts.
i don't think in terms of autopilot capabilities. They do have the ipads with the various navigation charts, instead of that huge book of all the airports and flight paths and such.
so yes, you can use an ipad to navigate, the same way that a garmin GPS or your trusty AAA road atlas could help you navigate your way around the US
The original post suggested that there was a system already built into the airplane that could have been used instead of an iPad. Or that a defect in the iPad could result in landing at the wrong airport. I don't think road trippin' uses quite the same navigation since most guys just plug in the fixes in the FMS, but yes, in the terminal area for approaches we do get that information from the iPad.
Hey Wilson, you have obviously never been there in so many ways - just keep to the facts and understand that projecting one's own personality onto another is unfair to the projectee and telling of the projector - got it?
I see you offered your OPINION (that an airliner landed at the wrong airport) because you feel "probably a defect in the IPad used for navigation".
I need your help..your post has me concerned. I asked you about this, but I did not see a response to my post, so I will ask again...hopefully you or anyone else in here can help me out.
I use an I Pad as a check against my aircraft's panel-mounted navs. Really worries me if the thing is no good.
Can you tell me what nav. program you have on YOUR IPad? I have WingX Pro7, many of my friends have Foreflight. What tip-offs do you suggest we look for on either of these programs to see the failures you indicate can occur ?
I am lost. Yes...I am aware that some airlines permit their people to do 'visual" approaches....dont the airlines have at least as good equipment as we have in general aviation ? ? I mean..when you are coming into a developed area and/or there is more than one airport....dosnt everyone double-check to make sure they are coming into the correct one ?
Someone in here thought this might be because their I Pad fouled up. I cant find that post; I am concerned, as I use an I Pad for "back-up". I have Wing X Pro 7. What can you guys tell me about YOUR use of I Pads as "back-ups" ? Which service do you subscribe to...have ANY of you EVER had the thing fail, as the poster suggested ?
I sure don't want to wind up at the wrong airport owing to my panel combining with my I pad to foul me up.
An iPad is not going to result in you landing at the wrong airport. Now not paying attention and losing situational awareness while fixating on your iPad might. Just about every airline is using some form of mobile device in the cockpit now and this type of incident is very rare. Its not the iPad....
Very disturbing, as Ellsworth should have been talking to an airliner landing at RAP. Unfortunately airliners landing at the wrong airport happens about each year in the USA. Now that almost all aircraft, even J3s with a handhelt, have GPS, it seems rediculous, but it continues to happen, even with ATPs with equipment that costs more than many personal aircraft.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2845/history/20160708/0111Z/KMSP/KRAP
Whoops the hop over...
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/DAL2845/history/20160708/0410Z/KRCA/KRAP