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  • 46

Asiana Airlines flight crashes short, skids off runway in Japan

提交時間:
 
TOKYO -- News reports say an Asiana Airlines plane skidded off a runway after landing in western Japan and about 20 passengers received minor injuries. It said the Airbus 320 plane was carrying 74 passengers and seven crew members from Seoul, South Korea. It said they were evacuated using escape chutes, and no was seriously injured. (abc7news.com) 更多...

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SouthSTARFlightNurse
As a retired U.S. Navy Captain flying the F-14 Tomcat, F-18 Hornet and FA-18 Super Hornet, I have had the opportunity to fly with Korean pilots in a military setting. After my retirement from the Navy some 12 years ago, I took a position as a Flight Safety Consultant with Boeing, and have had the opportunity to fly with Korean pilots in that setting in both military aircraft that Boeing produces, as well as civilian aircraft that Boeing produces. The bottom line from me after both interactions ---> a majority of Korean pilots JUST SCARE THE LIVING HELL OUT OF ME. I don't know if it is something within their culture, or a issue of "pride" that they have, but just try to tell a Korean pilot -- very nicely -- that they have done something wrong. They will argue their point ad nauseam that they are correct, regardless of circumstance. I recently had a Korean Airlines (KAL) 777 Captain with about 8000 flight hours join me as a PIC in a 777 simulator, who did 20 sorties with me in the simulator, and promptly crashed the 777 nineteen of twenty times. Then, just to prove a point, I brought my 19 year-old daughter into work (she is a licensed pilot with rather low hours -- none of them in a commercial aircraft -- and she stuck the landings manually, and dead-on, 5 out of 5 times. She was stick-flying the 777 manually. The KAL Captain was doing about 99% by auto pilot. I swear that if I was in a FA-18, I would have blown his ass out of the sky just for fun. This is why I refuse to fly JAL, KAL, MAL (etc) on any business trip with Boeing. I'd like to make it home to my family !!!!!
mwellis1947
mwellis1947 1
Agreed, while my experience with Korean pilots is not as extensive, it has certainly been scary. I recall one instance in Anchorage where the tower gave a KAL flight the usual departure briefing and asked to confirm, the pilot came back with 'okaaaaaaay' in a mock southern drawl. The controller repeated the instructions with the same response, then the 747 started rolling! Holy S*****. The panicked controller quickly reshuffled everyone to let him go, there was no stopping him!
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
Unbelievable.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
But not surprised with "Asian Aviation".
davejonesshawca
Dave Jones 1
Abbotsford tower had to do that numerous times for the Korean students in their 172's. 737's had to wait or slow down to let these non-english speaking people do their stuff.
preacher1
preacher1 1
It's culture- pride and status. That 777 Captain probably begged you not to tell about his SIM performance, especially up against your daughter. Back in the day in 71 when KAL first got their 747's, I had occasion to talk to a Boeing delivery/Training pilot in Seoul one day and he said it was a trip. He said their senior Captains took a look at the cockpit and wanted him to go home, that they knew all about it.
EbunkerD
Erik Davis 1
My cousin a retired pilot from USN and Continental Airlines agrees with you.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
I'm not refuting what you've said. How could I? However, surely, faced with the results of performance, something HAS to sink into their brains. How can it not? I get the pride, culture thing, (at least its existence if not the sanity of it) but performance - or lack thereof - faced with failure heaped upon failure, cannot help but speak volumes to them.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I don't think you can get the pride/culture thing until you have been there and seen it first hand.
lboyette
What is it with Asiana and Tail Strikes? " The crash is Asiana’s second within two years "
tdrucker55
Needless to say, I won't be flying Asiana anytime soon.
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
Soon??? How about ever...
khaiduk
Lots of "skidding" going on!
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 4
All of the news sources are saying "skidding" in their headlines, but they are burying the lead by not mentioning that the pilot appears to have landed short by ~300 meters (destroying the opposite direction ILS antenna), managing to get onto the runway, and then skidding off again.
Doobs
Dee Lowry 1
More like "skid marks" on their "tightie whities".
Doobs
Dee Lowry 2
The aircraft is only as good as the pilots flying it. Asiana,evidently,still doesn't know the fundamentals of "hands-on" flying.
jmilleratp
John Miller 2
Honestly, how freaking hard is it to land an aircraft?
preacher1
preacher1 2
Ain't no thang if you're a pilot as opposed to a button pusher
209flyboy
209flyboy 1
Preacher, you are right. These Korean pilots are receiving their basic flight training here in the bay Area and fly only 172's. They are difficult to understand on the radio and their flying skills leave a lot to be desired. When they return to Korea, they are low time and receive minimal training in 320's, 747's and 777's etc. It's no wonder there are so many issues with them.
davejonesshawca
Dave Jones 1
We had them up in Abbotsford, BC, Canada for a while. They were dangerous on the radios and a real nuisance. Half their radio calls were wrong. Everyone was glad when they left.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, they all have to come over here and train. There is no, at least there wasn't, any civil aviation in South Korea. When I was thee back in the day, even our aero club C150's had to follow or military flight paths in/out of the base. There was no hopping around and looking over the countryside or somebody would blow you out of the sky. I am sure the come ove here and get basics and go back, so no real profiency is to be gained.
paultrubits
paul trubits -1
Ever seen the bumper sticker on a car that says: I'm not drunk, I'm Asian.
preacher1
preacher1 2
Was this Captain WeTooLow back on flight status?
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
What's the problem? He missed the seawall this time, didn't he?
preacher1
preacher1 1
They ain't no seawall there, my friend
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Of course not, and that's the only reason why he missed. I don't suppose sliding qualifies as crossing the numbers either.
allench1
allench1 1
along with his no.2 ISawNothing
paultrubits
and their boss: PhuckMe
xiaezzora
Nowadays pilots rely heavily on auto pilot..try go manual and i am sure that would put their skill and experience to test.
Millertic
Tim Miller 1
I am intimately familiar with the Korean aviation culture and operations.. All of their airlines have a dangerous safety culture and it won't change until the MOLIT and the airlines acknowledge their dangerous pilots and oust them. Unfortunately the most dangerousl of these pilots have already been fired by various Korean airlines and now work for the MOLIT.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Unfortunately, you are very correct
pany
They should ban them from working in the industry! Just to keep things safe.
davejonesshawca
Dave Jones 1
A friend of mine who trains Koreans to fly says they have a lousy culture for aviation and even worse English that they are always faking. He quit working with them and refuses fly right or left seat with any Koreans.
LarryQB
LarryQB 1
Since they didn't have an ILS to assist, I wonder if they loaded the runway end into VNAV. The accuracy is very close to that of ILS and in a visual situation does wonders for the descent rate.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Who knows. It goes back to training. Based on 214, it sounds like it's ILS or nothing.

[This comment was deleted.]

pany
AVOID flying ASIANA, by all means! There are other safe airlines servicing Korea! STAY SAFE, folks!
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 1
Incident summary (updated) -- http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20150414-0
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 1
Flight track for flight 162 -- http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAR162/history/20150414/0930Z/RKSI/RJOA
blueashflyer
Flight track is one thing. sounds like the ground track would more interesting to see mapped out.
vdi74
James T 1
http://avherald.com/h?article=484c306e&opt=0
EbunkerD
Erik Davis 1
Today's planes built by Boeing/Airbus/Gulfstream, etc aren't designed to be flown by expert pilots who can hand fly their plane down to the runway in a hurricane, they are designed to be flown by the biggest numb-brained idiot. The idea is to get the plane from the numbers, auto throttled-from the FMS to rotation to 400 AGL where the autopilot is engaged and the rest of the flight is taken over by computer and managed by the crew. From there hopefully one of the pilots don't accidently touch the auto throttle disengage switch like what happened to Asiana in SFO two years ago. According to my friend who's an Airbus Captain states the auto systems aren't meant to replace situational awareness, it's to help pilots lessen their workload in critical phases of flight to maintain situational awareness! It seems to me that many airlines are going the opposite direction in which they want the pilots to be dolts and the planes the hero. This will all change when one of the big A380-800s is involved in a major accident!
kenish
kenish 1
Instead of pilots, they're "Aircraft Concierge"
preacher1
preacher1 1
Some of the bean counters have taken all that into fuel savings and all that. The dumbing down of the pilots is an unintended consequence.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Duplicate Squawk. See above. probably different URL. 21 comments above
ColinSeftel
From the ABC news report (www.abc.net.au/news/2015-04-15/asiana-plane-skids-off-runway-japan-runway-hiroshima/6395160), it appears the landing was on runway 28, which is not equipped with ILS. Runway 10 is more frequently used and has ILS (or had, before the antenna was destroyed). That's a common factor with Asiana 214 on 28L at SFO - their ILS was out of service at the time.
preacher1
preacher1 2
That is common. Maybe we do need some stick & rudder time. I guess when Asiana tears up enough planes they'll admit they might have a problem.
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
At this rate, they are going to run out of planes.
preacher1
preacher1 2
And they can't lay this off on Boeing. This was an Airbus. WeTooLow
Doobs
Dee Lowry 5
Doesn't matter, Preacher. The Asiana cockpit crews need to go back to "flight school and learn how to hand fly the bird. Thought they were going to do that after flying into the seawall in SFO. Guess not.
preacher1
preacher1 3
You'd think they'd do something else, but to do the same dang thing gives you cause for wonder. As someone said here, they did miss the seawall but I don't even know if Hiroshima has a seawall. That ILS marker might have been all they could get. They have the right;the NTSB ought a take a look at this. At the very least, get the FAA to pull their cert as far as flying in here. It's time to get mean and quit worrying about offending somebody.
preacher1
preacher1 1
RJOA don't have a seawall. He just flatly could not fly but as it is overseas, this is all we'll hear about it. Notice that even FA has pulled it off the page, can't understand why with 33 comments and 40 likes
joelwiley
joel wiley 3
Maybe there was a translation error with land and hold short
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
I think that FO "WeTooFast" was on board with Capt "WeTooFast" :)
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
Sounds Familiar... Think they need A LOT more training on basic flight skills and less on the Electronics...
Ianql
Ianql 1
Simply because the runway had no ILS is not an excuse to screw up a landing, the crew should be able to male a non precision instrument approach to any runway large enough to accommodate it. To not be able to do this displays serious airmanship problems, possibly too much reliance on the FMC/FMS and lack of hand flying skills. Even non precision, there's no need to hand fly most of it, just the last 300 ' or so, the rest can be done on autopilot, heading and altitude/speed select, vnav and Lnav .
preacher1
preacher1 1
Tell these Asiana pilots that though. They can't blame this one on Boeing Auto Throttles. This was an Airbus. You got to know how to fly the plane. I really don't put it all on the pilots. Part has to go on Asiana for lack of training or insuring that they have stick and rudder skills. It would be one thing if there was no alternative to an ILS being out but any of them will be out from time to time.
preacher1
preacher1 1
Does this runway even have an ILS?
bovineone
Jeff Lawson 1
There was ILS for the opposite direction until they crashed into the antenna, and there theoretically might have been a reverse ILS approach available but I haven't seen which published procedures actually existed. Presumably there was RNAV at least.
preacher1
preacher1 1
I don't think reverse ILS was an option. RNVAV was probably available but like you, I didn't look at it that close either. There wasn't a seawall.
TWA55
TWA55 1
Asiana probably needs a major over haul top side, as well as how their pilots are trained. It is beginning to appear as though Asiana is suffering from some issues that KAL had some years ago. Time to get back to the basics and maybe our military should re consider using this carrier for awhile if they have not already.
pany
Ban Asiana from flying into US and EU airports, as they have banned other Asian airlines!
preacher1
preacher1 1
That might work and give KAL a good promise of the same if they didn't keep there act together
prettyapple
This is so sad
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Appears to be an epidemic.
mpradel
Airbus gets another easy airframe sale!
Moviela
Ric Wernicke -2
They would do better to replace it with an airframe that can get you over the numbers. This crash might not be the pilot's fault at all, but given the propensity of the airline to miss the mark I call for at lease one American be assigned to each flight crew until the cultural barriers to safe flight operations are no longer a factor in Korean aviation.
btweston
btweston 2
Maybe you should write a letter.
mpradel
Please remember the SFO crash was on a 777.

Now, the accident narrative seems very similar to the AirCanada crash the other day.
flypilot12
flypilot12 3
That wasn't all of his point. The SFO crash was 100% pilot(s) error. They let their culture get in the way of flying the airplane. Though I don't agree with the first part either, the A320 is a very safe airplane even if I am partial to Boeing myself, I do like all airplanes and will take whatever gets me there, but I agree that there needs to be a non Korean pilot added to the flight crew(doesn't have to be an American, plenty of other safe pilots out there)
VisApp
Dave Mills 1
What is it with localizer antennas lately? Obviously they're a hazard to navigation and should be removed immediately! ;-)
Ianql
Ianql 2
This is nothing to do with the localiser, more likely lack of crew airmanship skills. If you land short for example, that's a pilot error, should have made a missed approach if the approach was not correct or not stable at 1000'. You never continue and make a bad situation worse, you throw away that approach, go around, sort lit put, and try again. Basic piloting skills, and yes I am one and a flight instructor and instrument rating instructor.
preacher1
preacher1 1
They are a hazard if you are too low. LOL
kenish
kenish 1
"ON" the localizer versus "INTO" the localizer.....subtle but important difference!! :)
preacher1
preacher1 1
They still hit it.
pany
The Koreans, with their bad English, don;'t understand the difference between ON and INTO!
chotiwala
The A320 has a horrible reputation right now.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
Aside from the joystick vs yoke argument, it seems IMHO to be more a matter of the computer operator up in the pointy end than the bird itself.
JerrySteinberg
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Asiana Jet Crash Lands in Japan, Over 20 Injuries Reported

An Asiana Airlines aircraft landing in Japan skidded off the runway on Tuesday.

Asiana Flight 162, an Airbus A320, made a crash landing at Hiroshima Airport in Japan and spun 180° after reportedly making a tailstrike. The flight had departed from Incheon International Airport in Seoul at 6:49 p.m. local time and arrived at Hiroshima Airport at 7:55 p.m....

http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2015/04/asiana-jet-crash-lands-in-japan-over-20-injuries-reported/
mwilliams78
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Asiana undershoots another runway

An Asiana Airlines plane smashed into a communications antenna as it came in to land at a Japanese airport, footage showed Wednesday, injuring 27 people in an accident with echoes of the Korean airline's fatal 2013 crash in San Francisco

http://news.yahoo.com/asiana-plane-hits-antenna-japan-runway-undershoot-034337195.html
mcarthurj
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

23 injured as Asiana Airlines Plane Overshoots Hiroshima Runway

Twenty-three people had minor injuries after Asiana Airlines Flight 162 overshot Japan’s Hiroshima Airport on Tuesday evening, prompting the airport to temporarily close.

http://ktla.com/2015/04/14/asiana-airlines-plane-overshoots-hiroshima-runway-23-injured/

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