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NTSB investigates missing Avantair P180 elevator

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I just found this story and wanted to share: According to a preliminary report by the US National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), the crew reported that they had a "non-eventful departure and flight from San Diego (www.flightglobal.com) 更多...

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pcrice
Peter Rice 7
Elevator found at CMA, yet flight landed at SAN and then departed. No preflight at SAN?
preacher1
preacher1 3
"and that the captain noticed that more back pressure on the flight controls was required for a normal landing upon arrival at Henderson".

Ya thank!!!!!!!!!!!

[This poster has been suspended.]

THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Pl, you can't blame a non-american product for human stupidity!!!
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
That should be Phil, these keys aren't right...
onceastudentpilot
I've never taken a liking to those aircraft..Some people love them but I just think they look very odd and they sound kind of like a rev'd up motorcycle when they are taking off and landing.
unclebigpete
That Avanti must be very stable in flight if the missing elevator wasn't affecting the flight characteristics
davysims
David Sims 1
That was my first thought. They are missing an entire elevator, and barely noted any change in control effectiveness over the course of two flights.
ToddBaldwin3
Or maybe over reliance on the autopilot?
AccessAir
AccessAir 1
They look like a catfish and sound like a bee....
ToddBaldwin3
I've never really seen one, so I had to go their website. You are right about the catfish part.
onceastudentpilot
glad no one was hurt
sombeach
sombeach 1
It's obvious that there was no preflight, I worked for Avantair at kcma as a mechanic for a year, I could not stand the way that they did there maintenance, very little supervision and inexperienced techs even some of the experienced techs did very shoddy work, it was scary seeing some of the work that came out of Avantair, there third party venders and even the corporate headquarters. I'm just saying !
mtnbiker2005
This N146SL aircraft Flight ID is " VNR146 "
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VNR146


July 28 - San Diego to Henderson.
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VNR146/history/20120728/1400Z/KSAN/KHND


July 28 - Camarillo to San Diego
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/VNR146/history/20120728/1252Z/KCMA/KSAN
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
Interesting, but not surprised. A lot of heavier a/c can split the Elevators. 2 examples are the Bombardier Dash 8 and the Bombardier CRJ. I would like to know if this plane just came out of maintenance (100 hr/annual)? If I were the mechanic there, I would be concerned. Being a T-Tail, the crew may not have been able to detect such a problem during preflight.
unclebigpete
it's still a bit hard to believe that one look up wouldn't have noticed s gaping hole where the elevator should've been
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
Maybe there was not a gaping hole... It could have had aerodynamic seals that could have covered up the evidence. I also have talked with captains who have flown with the Flight Controls Disconnected. The biggest difference is in the flare. Other than that, it would not have been that noticeable. It could have come out of maintenance with the bolts loose/unsaftied, and simply vibrated out. Could have also been a crack that finally gave way. When one broke the other followed. Either way, there is a very good chance the crew could not have seen it. Until the NTSB looks at the plane to find out what happened we will never know. I know of one case of a Turkey that flew between the Fuselage of a plane into the leading edge of the wing. Out going crew missed it on post flight, in coming crew missed it. In plain view of boarding passengers, no one noticed it until the person marshalling the plane noticed feathers sticking 12 inches above the wing. Hard to believe... It happens. I was a mechanic working on that plane and saw it first hand.
ibpilot72
ibpilot72 1
I think what Peter was saying is that if the captain/first officer had done a walk around in San Diego, they would have noticed that the elevator on one side was missing. It's not a big airplane, and one would definitely know if part of their elevator was missing if they had just looked upward. Becuase airport crew found it in KCMA, they should have noticed it missing if they had done a walk around in KSAN before their flight to KHND.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
You are right... I guess that 2nd walk around was very brief and not very detailed to say the least.
preacher1
preacher1 1
If they even did one.lol
preacher1
preacher1 1
Well, according to the report, and correct me here if I'm wrong, the folks at KCMA found it near a runway there, indicating that it fell off AFTER any preflight. Now, as you say, IF they had done a preflight at KSAN they probably would have noticed it, BUT, with nothing feeling wrong, whether they should have or not, they probably did not do a preflight at KSAN. What I really can't figure out is that the Captain said there was more than normal back pressure need on the controls for landing at KHND. He never felt anything at KSAN, yet his elevtor was laying at KCMA?
OviedoBob
If the crew had done a cursory preflight at KSAN, they would have definitely seen a missing elevator if they looked up. Its very easy to see and notice. How do I know this? I have over 3500 flt hours as a Piaggio pilot.
It was my personal routine to do a quick walkaround after the bags were loaded, pax in, and prior to closing the cabin door. Took 1-2 mninutes max.
CMA is a major maint base for Avantair.
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Looking more and more like an Maintenance Issue.... But don't want to point fingers too soon...
preacher1
preacher1 1
Probably is Sparkie as far as them losing it, but it was found by the runway, which would indicate that it was in place when they left, but based upon pilot's comments at Henderson, it looks like they would have felt that same thing at KSAN and/or noticed it on a prefilght.

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