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Malaysian Air Force: Plane Did Not Detour Over Strait

A Malaysian air force official added to the confusion surrounding the search for the missing Malaysian Airlines flight when he categorically rejected reports that the Malaysian military had tracked the plane by radar over the Strait of Malacca, one of the world’s busiest maritime shipping channels..... ( 更多...

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PhotoFinish 6
How do you spell fustercluck?

There should be ample radar in the area with Maylasia, Vietnam, Singapore and Indonesia all providing overlapping radar coverage in that region. They should be able to determine the exact location that airplane dussappeared
preacher1 5
You spelled it right and it is an apt description of a banana republic trying to get in the center of the world stage. If they would back off and give full access to the multinational investigative teams already there, we may have already found it several days ago. With out the U.S. saying much, they are pissing off China and as the leading power in that part of the world, that is not going to win them any popularity contest. All that said, maybe they do know where it is and what happened and there will be a really weird ending to all this.
matt jensen 2
They don't want the rest of the searchers to find the jet before they do. Conspiracy theories abound now.
Not , if they went Southbound .If Southbound they are most definitely in the water and wont be found for a while.. If Northbound however , I would say this B777 with pretty much empty fuel tanks could be sitting camouflaged in: Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, or Uzbekistan. e.g.  Urumqi ,Bishek , Astana,Uzbek .If the criminal ground support was inplace there and for the considerable degree also on the departure Airport when these Pax had shown up with their tickets . About 4 or 5 were rejected from the flight.If 4 or 5 are rejected ,does not mean another dozen or two dozens successfully got on this flight to participate in the hijacking.. Maybe up to 2/3 of pax may have be part in these plans,chinese required travel ID may not be crosscheckable that easy .Pax/cabin crew can do foul-play as well as cockpit crews.Some of them may have also been able to fly and navigate B777 . Remember on the first day , when the ethnicity of false Passportholders was discussed , first someone in the malaysian security circles reveiled : "ethnic Uighur" .Keep in mind 03.00 am underwater earthquake 2.7 magnitude on richterscale ,also 2 eyewitness observers observed a fireball ascending initially,Air defense radar (vertical profile analysis said 45000 feet .1 hour after LOST COM a correct code of a transponder observed in the malakka straights indicating FL295 ( 29500 feet) . We need to know ,what was goinjg on there.
Mike Mohle 6
Are these the same guys who did the ACA website?
This plane could have been ditched at a much slower speed and sunk largely intact. This would create little to no debris.
ELT signal.. each self-inflating life raft/slide no person actively required to do anything , has powerful ELT sending LAT/LONG Emergency signals up to the sky ,to hundrets of satelites 22000km their orbit height(all Sirius eg)
skylloyd 2
NBC is reporing that a oil rig worker saw a burning plane fall into the China sea in one piece. We will see.
burning plane fall into the China sea in one piece. - a burning piece in one piece was seen. Pieces that had not caught on fire n would fall undetected at night.

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Jim Fuller 1
the oil rig is 314nm from the last ATC posit
314 NM requires an Altitude of 55000 feet ,if the rigg was 70 m above water surface , still about 40000 feet.The B777ER was FL350 and showed a increase in Airspeed after TX loss immediately. This would mean a dive ! An initial dive.
Good lord, now China says they think they see wreckage in the STraight.
There are so many "what if" scenario's it's hard to keep track. I'm sure the aircraft will be found but, "what if" it was a cockpit fire? I managed a jet fleet and wiring, from the air-rconditioning control head, had the wrong gage. The wiring started to smolder and were located next to the oxygen lines. My pilots put the airplane on the ground within minutes and isolated the problem. If they were at altitude the fire would be so hot the pilots would be passengers, unable to communicate. I'm sorry for the time the passengers had to spend on MH370, or any flight, knowing the outcome is not good.
Let's say the Malaysian military never actually tracked MH370. This could mean 4 things:
1. The Malaysian military is incompetent;
2. The flight never actually left Malaysian airspace so no defense response was needed;
3. The flight left Malaysian airspace and never returned;
4. The flight left Malaysian airspace and returned to Malaysian airspace and was not intercepted as it should have been by a fighter aircraft. The Malaysian military is covering the butt because this would surely be a career ending event.

Which brings up the point, if the jet left Malaysian airspace and then turned back with no communication to any controlling facility on the ground and crossed back into Malaysian airspace why was there no defense response on the part of the Malaysian Airforce?

Does this mean the aircraft never came back to Malaysia and is down somewhere between Malaysia and Vietnam?

Does this mean the aircraft never left Malaysian airspace and is actually down somewhere in Malaysia? Could this explain why there was no military response to a non-communicating plane in Malaysian airspace?

Shouldn't the military radar coverage in Malaysia show the complete track of the aircraft until it left Malaysian airspace?

If it did not leave Malaysian airspace shouldn't the military radar coverage show the complete track of the aircraft?

Are these questions that hard for the Malaysian military to answer?
System shut down separatly. This is a wrong lead again . 01.07 COM = Down
01.21 Mode AS Transpondersignal out .

Comm RX is always on ,nobody outside can ever check this,Comm TX becomes on when you transmit and
key the mike button.PTT (Push to talk)

But some glitch seems to be in engine monitoring, they got mistakes there, it could be another set of engines monitored all along,since delivery ,Maintenance people look at datas only
they do not compare actual times off use of airplanes,they are used all the times anyway .
These engines keep on rolling ,data stop and go thousand time a year.Something wrong in the initial setup.
Unless we really got foul play,eg the Captain has locked out the First Officer ,or visa versa.Lookijg at their pictures i 'd rather believe the Captain - Crazy behavior however : Avoid PTT , they were calling him on all frequencies in the area incl. 121.5 Mhz hundrets of times that night.Ignore the ATC .Right turn (Air defense however wants to have seen primary target in a shallow left turn)leave the FL350 to FL 295 Malakka thereafter flying Transponder mode ASA off again with 7 hrs fuel and cockpit door all the times.Communicating with the Safe-heavebn conspirators and Land eg Ogaden ,Djibouti ,Yemen ,Islamabad ,Iguria (china) . Then have the aircraft covered camoflaged up before sunrise . ...Far fetched ,all this !!
Geosynchronous sat's are not giving the RollsRoyce engine datas. I am flying here in Florida, near CUBA and BAhamas ,i am familiar with a kot of aspects when it comes to primary target faking.
Detect the lie: Sequence of events as reported,Malaysia responsible for this reporting ! 1) Adress data lost on Sat.LINK 2)Last call "good night" by this calm sounding First Officer voice identified. 3) Transponder off = secondary radar off. 1) 2) 3) does not make sense since switchable by pilot is only four possibilities in mode:
a) AS-C b) A c) STBY (no EHF / UHF POWER actively radiating from the Aircraft (or jammed/substituted artificially/double-crossed)same as d) Off d) OFF. The "stapling / associating /Taging of AS-C data to the published radar ATC pictures is done ON THE GROUND ,in deed on the ground by Computer center(s). nowhere else !! Certainly not up there in the Cockpit of MH370 . Looks like a HOAX as never seen before in military and civil Aviation combined. Keep in mind ,MH370 could have stayed in FL350 all the times,never actually(physically) MH370 was never at 23000 never at 29500 , never at 45000 . There currently is One observer in Youtube (an amateur observer) who
even found,recorded and published , correct FL350 and correct ID code on the other side of Vietnam on the correct flight planned route. Somebody airborne may have faked the whole check in/ check out verbal traffic with this First officer in MH370,all the way into china and there , deep in china ,at a critical handover point , the hijacking
process has began ,to land safely in ighurian controlled RWY greater 6000 feet daylight landing with immediate camouflage action.As many as 20 ,30 ighurians could have boarded with geneuine or non-guinine chinese Passports.Easy becomes the project if one or both Pilots
participated volunteerly in the foul play.From the very beginning of planing probably weeks/month before and/or on the spot when confronted with the hijacker demands.Do not forget the wife and 3 kids of the Captain,dissapeared the night before the flight MH370 !
We are dealing here with radar data fraud ,more than that , there definitely was some substancial help from high performance military aircraft that night. What other Air Force could this have been orchestrating ,other than Malaysia ?
Successfully fooled 2 Eyewitnesses seeing a fireball coming down from the sky , 320 nm from each other at 01.45 and another 4 to 5 eyewitnesses observing a low flying jet westbound that night.Help was given especially to fake primary targets,jamming operations over malaysia and over Vietnam and in one case,over Malakka even set an AC_S mode with the correct assigned code out 1 hr later..And i have not seen and checked for physical presence and functionality of all the ELT Gear on board and all the Rolls Royce MARSAT related airborne gear supposed to be onboard of this particular Boing777-ER .Neither did You probably-they lie to us - they lie to us a lot.
Low level escape flight northbound ,even flying at longest endurance speed, would consume 35% mor fuel and the radius is curtailed substantially, at the most reaching Burma.

When a Captain signs his flight Plan , he also personally vouches for all the Emergency and over water flight Emerency gear whichincludes: 1 underwater ELT ,2 Strong ELT impact triggered and
also water sensitive triggered giving LAT/LONG immediately to orbiting Satelite Network mainly operated by Boeing and Lockheed.Another dozens of ELTs is installed in each live raft. Even if all 239 persons incapacitated , all this emergency transmitter would go off, we need to find them all quickly on the ground in Malaysia , possibly not too far from the Station that received secondary radar signals ( an immediate high performance acceleration to speeds that are impossible for a B777 , was observed in upon loss of secondary signal.) and /or the Air defense Station who was able to come up with "radar sightings" at 23000, 295000 and 45000
To sign a flight plan with the knowl;edge of not having these Emergency equipment readfy and functional and installed, is a fraud.
Before the flight TAS Malaysia Police , personal talked a lot and leaked a bit about ighurs with doubtful ID's.
Even 4 were rejected from taking the flight..We also need to find out , what the Cargo load exactly was. since the same party of criminals who possibly removed all ELT underwater ELT and the 2 main ELTs , saved up a lot on the payload,each slide is a raft and has its own ELT going of with LAT/LONG for as long as 30 days. I think it is safe to say,all this gear was gone, gone before the flight.Gone and placed under power
for as long as 08.11 the rollsroyce monitoring 2-way comm. gear. They had the courage to show the geographical location arc(s) at 08.11
but never had the courage however to present the (as results of pings)arcs of 02.11 , 03.11 , o4.11 , 05.11 andO7.11 ) MARSAT is responsible for UPLINK/Downlink of IOR sitting at 64 East (Geosynchronous on the Clarke Belt ) it is a lie about Identifiable unmodulated carrier to that
distance(< 36000 km above equator at 64 East) Rolls Royce needs to come forward and give the exact route of uplink/downlink, it cannoty be IOR
at that distance . Your car has a little stub antenna on the roof , this is to receive Sirius oprograms and GPS signals and more services offered in
this ka - Band .18 - 35 GHZ . So does the Rolls Royce data monitoring . When ID is properly received every hour, GPS data absolutely(COMPARE BLOG ECONOMIST.COM)
with a high probability are also available LAT/LONG is somewhere available as we speak here resp. as we type here ! This whether some one pays for the service or not.
They have to come forward with the truth or else they will have to admit , they have been fooled by the signal/radar fraudsters.
PhotoFinish 1
In short it seems you're saying, someone gas the exact location of this plane (lat, long) or don't want to admit they've been tricked by some elaborate satcom spoofing hack.

[Your posts are too technical for most, so you lose many. But this one raises some intereting points, the primary one is how could their exact location not be exactly known from their satcom pings?]
joel wiley 1
Another theory popped up you might want to look at:
PhotoFinish 1
But taking both together the plane has landed somewhere in western Asia/ Central Asia AND some people likely know exactly where it is (or are too embarrassed that someone was able to successfully circumvent their plane locating systems).
Glenn Abate 1
Could tampered food or drink have been given to the pilot(s) to render them helpless thus allowing the perpetrator(s) to take control of the A/C?
I'm going to put forth a theory. Hell, everyone else is :)

What if the cockpit electronics failed, but flight controls remained? At night time over the ocean, with no visual references or radio, what would YOU do? I would turn east or maybe southeast. Towards where the sun would rise. Hope to stay in the air long enough to find some land and, if lucky, an airport somewhere.

6 hours of fuel would buy some time.
There are back up flight instruments on the aircraft.
preacher1 1
Regarding your theory; I have had it happen before on a 757; I was lucky in that it was daylight and was VFR and already stabilized for landing at the home field. The whole panel went dark and it turned out to be something minor. As I hand fly in/out mostly it was not a big deal but it could be a bad happening over water, at FL350, and dark.
Wow, glad you made it down OK!
preacher1 1
All I can say is this. That was about 15 years ago, I remember it like it was yesterday, and even though stabilized, hand flying, and the field in sight, with clearance to land, I would not want to do it again. It is a bad errie feeling. Had it been further out or IFR, at the very least it would have caused a good seat pucker. As I said, were this to happen over water at FL350 and dark, it got ugly real quick. As I said earlier, it turned out to be something very minor, but it was very major to the flight crew.
oil rig location:
8.37 108.71 0 0 0 312nm fm last

earth radius 7000 km ,Fire ball observed ??? Out in the atmosphere 100.000. feet or more
I am in Florida KFLL and if a rocket is launched Cape Canaveral, i can only see after
the rocket passes about 77000 feet
Jim Fuller 1
MH370 final ATC data
~1 min intervals:
lat lon spd hdg alt
6.00 103.14 472 025 350
6.13 103.20 472 025 350
6.24 103.26 472 025 350
6.36 103.31 472 025 350
6.48 103.37 472 025 350
6.58 103.41 472 025 350
6.68 103.46 472 025 350
6.80 103.52 472 025 350
6.93 103.59 471 040 0 hdg chg, altimeter loss
6.97 103.63 471 040 0

debris (Chinese rpt)
6.7 105.63 0 0 0 120nm fm last

oil rig location:
8.37 108.71 0 0 0 312nm fm last

Note the last two pos reports. A swing to the right 15deg "AND" loss of the altimeter. Am I right in assuming a "0" reading indicates a ALT failure rather than reaching sea level in a minute from 7 miles up. Also, is the air speed data coming off the pitot tube interface that the altimeter uses? or are they kept completely separate.
when barometrice altitue encoder fails an acars goes off accordingly ,establish handshake bot statons and therafter one way the message from aircraft to gnd.Flight management computer also
may give alarm too,because GPS altudude, Doppler ground vertical radar , and barometricly gained altitude value have great discrepances. However for ground and flighradar24 and it would immdietely indicate zeRO FEET.
thor nibus 1
Malaysian military says it tracked a plane at 29,5 across the strait and now one of them says no we didn't - that's because they did what any military would do to a nonresponsive aircraft in their airspace - they shot it down, once it got over water. The Malaysian govt has been unaccountable for 60 years. for
joel wiley 1
If that is the case, then the debris field should be found soon.
What accounts for the engine keepalive pings that went on for hours?
What else are they not saying?
It was the higher ranking Officer ,who quickly denied the radar Pick up.His career is/was at risk.An unresponsive Airplane primarey target only ,20 or 35 yrs old ( e.g. ITT or Gilfilan Inc. manifactured-)Air defense equipment at hand,You send out interceptuion jets,however it takes you many minutes , until you can establish radar Altitude FL295 =29500 feet ,Calculations (or tangens- tables)are involved because you have only the slant angle not the feet. ANd this was 1 hour after LOST of secondary radar.Airborne metal detection,absolutely no positive ID . I also consider a glitch in the software of GE , who received Engine data attempts for as long as 7 subsequent hours.
They show Position rings North and South for the time check 08.11 ,i wish they would show each and every ring since Lost COM. We will know what was going on.
PhotoFinish 1
GE software would have no bearing as the engines were RR. The engine manufacturer and the satellite data transmission company are both British.
RR plants EHF Satellite Antennas and 2-way COMM GEAR for ready to activate remotely
subscription , datas available remotely , ??? A Ping with no info is against FCC reg's they also must ID ,since it is a transmitting station, and LAT/LONG etc available at the GEAR , more than logically,this would go with it too. -amazing .-- You know what , they got all datas anyway ,when
the subscriber pays , you release . We need to persue them now to release it includes LAT/LONG every Hour as long as engines running or aircraft is on groundpower. This means as long as the main bus Board voltage is up. I suspect someone in England long ago knows exactly whats going on,it's just Malaysia exerting the PR valve obstruction valve there.
joel wiley 1
With the RR engines reportedly running for several hours after last published contact, and reports that Malaysian military radars tracked a bogie heading westerly, is seems the government is not being totally forthright with the press.
The tracking of an unidentified aircraft across Malaysian airspace may indicate a) incompetence on the part of the military, b) such incursions are sufficiently routine that and armed response isn't the first reaction, or c) something else.

A report from an oil rig about a flaming crash at altitude put that incident location to the East of the flight path- in the opposite direction. Related? Time will tell. It may be a part of a different puzzle.
Jim Fuller 1
that report may be a case of confused time zones. the last report from the engines was a few minutes after take off.
THAT bOEING COUL HAVE BEEN SMUGGELD INTO cHINA with china's consent. The Voice of First officer taped long before this project was pulled off here. Just played in on the correct ATC VHF frequency (740 channelse from 118.00-136.975 MHZ Amplitude modulated, if we are lucky they did so from a wrong bearing. Same as faking the flight through Vietnam, Voice of first officer showing radar target FL350 all the way. Sombody on youtube caught the flight MH370 on the other end NE of Vietnam at FL350 at about the correct time,when the real MH370 was supposed to fly there. And if it was in fact
the real MH370 , the 34 Nations may call off the SAR efforts, ans same if the ELT gear is found on the ground intact ,just removed from the aircraft in question.
THE KEY: Was MH370 Boeing 777-200ER fueled to fly its maximum range of 7,700nm?

If so, "You are cleared for landing." Hello Iran, Hello Pakistan, Hello Yemen…
I've thought about this theory and discounted it. Pakistan: The jet would have to fly close to India, and we all know about relations between Pakistan and India. I think Pakistan would fess up, given the current political climate. Yemen and Iran: Would just about have to intrude on Saudi Arabian airspace, which is monitored, and Israel would also know.
7700 nm range - if Putin's hinchmen have co-op'd you go deep into china ,Burma, Russia ,Siberia ,NK,Simerfpol (ukraine),Damaskus,Iran,Ogaden,Yemen. You can drop (or sell certain VIP) pax,those with stolen Passport are are at their hometowns mainly, refuel and dissapear into South America.
Sell the aircraft to anyone,Castro, Ahmadinejad,Assad or to KimJon-un etc.
joel wiley 1
A common thread in numerous discussions unrelated to fl 370 is that there seems to be a constant battle between the flight crew and 'bean counters' about the amount of fuel to haul.
If someone topped off the tanks for a relatively short flight, and the flight suddenly disappeared, I think that would be a rather glaring point in the investigation.

But then, there are lots of things that the public is not hearing about this incident.
preacher1 2
Well, without full fueling, you had fuel on board for a 5.5 flight, diversion to alternate airport, plus reserve so he probably had 6.5-7 hrs fuel which would have taken him into any of the bad boy countries.
I got to thinking about this and looked into it. If the plane was hijacked and not subsequently piled up, where could a 777 land that would be difficult to trace and not have cell service? The jackers could confiscate phones on board, but what about at the destination? Loose lips sink ships. Therefore, two possibilities. 1. A country that is soooo controlled by a rogue military, that the population lives in fear. Iran. Yemen. Mayanmar. North Korea. Somalia. Could sneak into some of them at low levels. 2. A small, remote island that has an abandon or nearly abandon runway from WWII.
Nobody checked on the ground in the dumsters and/or military hid=aways amo depot etc. ,if the emergency beacon locator
equipment was removed somewhere among the previous route of flight. An accidential earthquake

or also intentional toss (compare the blow off of an airbag in the car.)somewhere would trigger die
alert or contact with salt water.

Also , how would an aircraft system on board ,designed for RR engine monitoring bei SITA via INMARSAT actively (RX simplex uplink) bring about handshake-signals with a geostationary satelitte ,why exactly IOR on 64 east Longitude vertikal distance some 22000 miles away !!!

If you are also an ATPL and/or an avionics eng. and have this correct answer ,please contact immediatelt the media.please(CNN,NY-times ,Wallstreetjournal etc.)

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matt jensen 2
The Chinese had these photos the day after the jet went missing, yet sat on them until today. Along with the photos the claim by the rig worker he saw a jet burning. Too suspicious and confusing.
Jim Fuller 0
The Chinese probably didn't know the data was there till yesterday. Maylay military is probably using surface search radar, may not even be ARPA equipped. Likelihood of someone on watch on a Saturday eve firing up a tracking team to track a blip that isn't headed towards a presidential palace or something like that... not good.
Putin would pull off something like this at anytime.But China could have gone along and let them pull it off. Have the world believe the B777 is lost . Let the pilot and passenger and crew believe ,nothing is wrong. Jamm signals, impersonate ATC tape voices etc, just as necessary to isolate flightcrew from the est of the world, they do their job,like everyday,they fly
waypoint by waypoint. Answer thye radio if ATC calls, check in on the next sector, report level and position and next fix everyday.On ground, after Landing Peking ,ground control marshalls them
to a segregated area cell phone towers silenced for that time,Buss them away 239 persons incl, Ighurs ,who may have chinese arrest warrants anyway.The 2 iranians, Mr Wood with all his snoden secrets in his head, and adn and. Vietnam said ,MH370 never signed on.. could be a lie !
You mean Brunei ? 15 degrees right - turn would point at them ! ..yes you got it right : not good .
Not healthy the whole event here,especially what gioes through my mind, i am a Captain too: cracks in Boeings and in Airbus 380 ,330 discovered , Winglets sliced off when airborne,Stroboscope anticollision flashers 60000 volts blinking away at wingtip near Tanks (wed wing),i am thinking of a short circuit especially in the event off a winglet tear - off.
Safety/Security: Many attemopts at departure airoport weeks before to smuggle a bomb onboard , Stolen Pasports used, even you are not to begin a flight for 1 hr after datas are submitted to
international screening sites. Who knows in those screening agencies(incl.Interpol,Paris), leakers , identifying targets(people to become assassinated) Then these fake ID's ,ME men in their military age ( in this case IRAN = subscription and death penalty for defection=asylum rights facilitated ) . ME=Middle East.
Luggage check: This is another story, Some traveler in military age, his regime is ready to take his life for desertion,gets some help with a ticket to Germany or Europe.Where his life can be continued , probably does fail to look into his baggage prior to handover to ticket agents/security check , his life is on his mind , not the threat from his home country , he forgets that he (and his own life) could be used for other purposes. Size of a labtop the receiver and triggering device.Bomb can make the signature of a labtop.Many objects cannot go in the cabin,but easily slidfe under the belly of a jetliner in the luggage.
Communication between that luggage and the offender , as little as a cellphobne or a car key remote.

I should be able to go online get portrait photos of all flight crewmenmbers or at least cockpit crewmembers before the flight boards,before i get confronjted with a face i have never seen before.
On clearance delivery,for anyone to listen in the discret transponder Code for this flight.
Mode S the code published for anyone to read and program in on the spot for airborne double crossing.No personal face to face - human to human security check before entering/boarding an aircraft,No armed Guards inside the Cabin while Cock[pit /Cabin is unattended.Same lack of Face to face cross-check when entering a ramp area . Crewmembers do not know each other before a flight,no voice recognition bookmarked for each FCC operator.I can go on the rest of the morning with loopholes i step across each day on a busy airport.
Even On board,when airborne my and my crews and/or pax safety is compromised. The T-Kas is warning me of other possibly uncontrolled traffic only and only , if the collision opponent has his Transponder Mode A (at least C ) on and correctly operating . An evil minded military jet can follow me from behind and willfully take me out of the sky (it actually happened KAL Flight 007: See CNN : "How the Cold War fueled an unthinkable tragedy ...kal-fight-007- ." And noe , developments in Kiew and Iguria , heating up again the cold war ,we cannot have this ,let everybody in the aviation community know !~ It 's almost a feeling like in the 30-ies, the German U-boots sinking innocent maritime vessels. About 70 to 80 yrs ago. We need to be safe !

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preacher1 1
Seem to me that this is the first time any mx transmissions or otherwise from the plane have even been acknowledged. Where's the ACARS?
A 5 hour flight at 400+ mph (kts) would indicate the plane flew "thousands" of miles after the last reported position. The flight between Kuala Lumpur and Beijing is only 2200 miles. This means the aircraft would have flown beyond it's target and would have probably run out of fuel. Where did it fly in that 4 or 5 hours. Surely some government within 1000 miles of the planes last reported position would have picked it up unless it flew in circles over the radar dead zone south between Vietnam and Malaysia. This report seems to not hold up to any type of analytic mirror. More misinformation put out by the press trying to increase traffic to their websites. Disgusting.

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preacher1 1
Well just now, on CBS national news, Malaysian officials have denied all the reports from China, WSJ, and have said that Boeing and RR have refuted the report. Sully don't seem to believe it. Something going on.


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