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More than 700 airline passengers banned in US for refusing to wear masks

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How long the bans last depends on the airline and the individual passenger’s behavior, the companies said. Delta said its bans could last a lifetime in certain cases. (nypost.com) 更多...

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DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 44
As i read various comments , and insults , i came to realize that ,i signed up to this FlightAware blog , because i have a background in Civil Aviation .,and that is where my interests are . But now , this site has turned into a political debacle . I'm the guy who comes from an Airline family . I'm the guy who loves to build Aircraft models ,and looks forward to hearing about the Airline industry . But now this site has become much less . I don't know if there are any others who feel this way . But i think i've had enough ........DGR
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 17
I agree about how this site is becoming too political. I used to enjoy coming here and reading the discussions. I am not a pilot nor have I ever worked in the airline industry so this site was a place to read posts from people who were in that industry and knew what was going on. I respected their knowledge and gained a lot of insight from them but...and sadly there is a but...now it’s looking more and more like Facebook with everyone insulting each other and fighting over things and the worst part is now most of them don’t appear to actually work in the airline industry.
It was a good site and I hope this is temporary and the shit disturbers will move on and leave it for the rest of us who just want to read about planes and learn from people who have first hand knowledge of the industry.
PDLanum
Philip Lanum 16
Wearing a mask is not a political decision.

Wearing a mask is a health decision in support of the community.

If you think that wearing a mask is a political stand, then write down and carry a declaration that if you get the virus - you refuse medical help.

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737man
737man 0
As if that convinces anyone to wear a mask.

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worldavi
worldavi -1
What do you mean "carry a declaration" Do you think that if you catch Covid you immediately fall to the ground and require emergency treatment? We sure have a large group of people in the USA which cannot think for themselves. Wearing a mask is an act to PROTECT YOURSELF"
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 4
Which mask you wear will depend on if you are protecting yourself or protecting others. A half face resiprator with P95/N95 or P100/N100 filters will protect you from others, but if you already have the virus, you would not be protecting anyone else.

A N95 mask will protect you and others depending on whether or not you have the virus again, as long as there are no valves that allow particles through.

A paper or cloth mask will protect others from the wearer depending on how the mask is made and worn.

Another thing, a mask will not work while wearing a beard. Masks actually need to touch the face.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 3
Thinking for yourself is not very successful when your thinking is in error. The primary reason you are asked to wear a mask is to inhibit your ability to infect those around you.
phucyou
Zack Balz 7
Agree completely. Im sick and tired of EVERYTHING being politicized.

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wiregold
wiregold 5
"Agree entirely" as you politicize wearing masks ...
It goes over your mouth - not down your throat.
It is proven that masks REDUCE the ability of the virus to move from your mouth to the atmosphere.
ftldave
Dave Underwood 3
Ignorance is bliss, DGR. The sad state of politics affects our lives, affects the aviation industry, and now more than ever, affects our health. Ignoring politics may make you feel better, ignoring the truth may make you feel better, but science rules, and truth matters, despite what the Covid deniers say.
loopgroup1
Craig Northacker -2
Science changes depending upon the sponsor...just sayin...
737man
737man -3
You know as many times as you use the word science, that doesn't make you immune to counter studies.
AndyShank
AndyShank 1
You're right - but keep at it. Plenty of reasonable folks like yourself around, who do in fact want to talk about actual aviation.

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worldavi
worldavi -4
Ok well if its not for you then don't post. Problem with people are they are afraid to confront issues with other people. I guess being weak.
KicksOnRoute66
Roger Anderson -4
This is not a blog though (at least the squawk section).
TheDogeof88
Chuck Lavazzi 34
Just a reminder that nobody has a Constitutional right to an airline ticket. I'm glad to see that the airlines are taking the health of their passengers seriously. Although, really, they don't have much choice; making your customers ill has never been an especially good business plan outside of the tobacco industry.
loopgroup1
Craig Northacker 2
Ask Monsanto...
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 11
Wow folks, a lot of posts, some nasty, some nice, some informative others not so much. Maybe we can all agree that until a proven vaccine is available, that by both wearing a mask you prevent viral spread from you to others AND from others to you. As airlines go, if they enact a mask rule for carriage on their equipment then that becomes the rule. If you cannot comply with the rule then you don’t buy a ticket. One must remember that the airlines don’t have an endless supply of crews and if they get sick nobody goes anywhere.....period. If you cause a ground delay or inflight disruption then be prepared to receive whatever action the airlines deem necessary.
ftldave
Dave Underwood 22
The airlines know that allowing Covid denier crazies to fly without masks will be the death of their business, not to mention potential death of their customers. People won't fly if they don't think proper health precautions, based on science, are observed. Fact.

And when you see posts containing the non-word "sheeple", you know the unhinged have arrived.
tskubal
Thomas Skubal -3
Fact. COVID 19 arrived in the US in early February 2020. Some reports from the Los Angeles Health department report early December 2019. Further we now know that COVID 19 was active in China in December 2019.
Fact. Air travel was "normal" around the world until March 2020, except for the China ban put in place in late February.
Question? Have you heard of any air crews getting sick, anywhere in the world since December 2019, when mask wearing was not required nor even thought about? How many air crews that where flying all of those sick and exposed cruise ship passengers in March through June got sick?

Note, my wife and I wear masks on a flight in March 2019, because we were getting over a sinus cold.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 1
Here was the situation back in early April:

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/coronavirus-grounding-growing-number-of-pilots-attendants
tskubal
Thomas Skubal 2
David, thank you for the article. I asked from a POV of I had not heard of any air crews getting sick. I'm not going to quibble over testing positive verse getting sick. I truly have not seen any reporting on this question until you provided it. One would think that this would have made the news. We heard about cruise ship workers getting sick.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 1
In searching for an answer to your query, I thought it was strange that I couldn’t find anything that was more recent than last spring.
PlainSpeaking
Brent Bahler 1
That may be due to the fact that, with the shutdown of the economy, far fewer passenger flights were occurring. With planes sitting on the ground, so too were the flight crews. No flights > no pilots > no infections.

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Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 8
Getting your thoughts from the QAnon Borg is not "thinking for yourself". Relying on the ideations of cultists rather than learning from experts is not "thinking".
ewrcap
David Beattie 5
Gee, I wonder what you would think if your Doctor, nurses and technicians showed up without masks for your next surgery. How about your pilot who refuses to wear a mask when left alone in the cockpit. Those people must feel soooo oppressed. Why don’t you protest the use of seatbelts or having to put your seat up for takeoff? I’m mean, really, that is such an infringement on your constitutional right to be an ignorant jerk!
bobbylykins
Bobby Lykins 25
My wife and I contracted CV19 in Italy back in December. Two weeks after flying home, we both came down with what we thought was "A really angry, pissed off case of the flu on steroids!" We both tested positive for the antibodies in June. We suspected, but didn't really know, we had CV19. As much as we both dislike wearing a mask, we wear one all the time when we are out and about. We do this for two reasons...#1 we have the antibodies, but we don't know, as don't the doctors, if we can get re-infected or how long the antibodies will last. #2 we do it out of courtesy to others who may be at risk. This all might all end up being for nothing, but we are both over 60, and to us, it's a small price to pay. As a retired 33 year airline employee, I stand with the airlines for now, but I disagree with banning for life over this. Never forget 9/11
wiregold
wiregold 1
You mean 'Never forget engineers were banned by the 911 commission' ...
FloridaFan34
James Steiner 0
Actually these is a couple of cases were people who who have re-covered were re-infected: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/health/covid-antibodies-herd-immunity.html and
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/report-nevada-man-re-infected-by-covid-19-after-fully-recovering/ar-BB18tJLM

Airlines do make announcements about facemasks being required for ALL passengers from age 2 and up, and the "medical" exemption clause eliminated.
737man
737man -8
Slow clap for virtue signaling!
dee9bee
dee9bee 30
The problem with a federal mandate is who has the 'you know whats' to decide when the mandate is no longer required. We've been taking our shoes off at the airport for eighteen years now.
Kensterfly
Ken Thompson 8
I fly many times each year on business. I haven’t taken my shoes off in at least ten years.
dee9bee
dee9bee 5
Welcome to pre check. That wasn't my point.
worldavi
worldavi 4
There is always an Ahole comment from someone. Even from me
loopgroup1
Craig Northacker 1
We all are turns...lol
rdlink
rdlink -2
You can track down and kill a virus. People with hate in their hearts are always looking for creative ways to harm others.
SteveCutchen
Steve Cutchen 1
"You can track down and kill a virus."
So those that get sick and those that die are victims of neglect by virus hunters?
Even if you don't know science, science knows you.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 43
I live in a city , a big city , where the politicians take the advice of the Public Health Departments , very seriously . I'm proud to say my politicians do this with-out turning it to a Political debate .. I have been wearing a mask for the last 4 months , not only because such use was advised by Public Health , but mostly out of respect for others well being . While i do not know , if i am infected ( i don't think i am ) i may just be an asymptomatic carrier , ( a person who carries the virus , unknowingly ) and i just wouldn't want to be the cause of infecting some one else . Please be respectful of others , and wear a mask . It is so simple to do . Thank-you ....DGR
topgunnh
Peter McGrath -2
You mean like the PA public health official who moved his mother out of the nursing home at the start of them moving Covid patients into them? Those kind of heroic public health officials? It's ALL political!
666adt
Andrew Turnbull -8
So, Public Health Departments are omniscient and infallible, free from all political and personal biases? Here's a great article about the "rule by experts" that I think you might find worthy:

https://fee.org/articles/rule-by-experts-is-tyranny-shrouded-in-science/?fbclid=IwAR2QKqnkxG_OAmKLtnhVU-GwMvGe7OukQB1Rcm1VGkSLmNg0syFSTFOp51s

You might also be surprised to learn what the prestigious New England Journal of Medicine said about this back in April and again in May, and which they have not retracted as of today:

"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal."

You can read the entire NEJM article here: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
ankonaskiff17
Wayne Wells 14
Seems to me the interior of any aircraft meets these criteria.

Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes).
supercruiser1946
supercruiser1946 16
We understand that some people are citing our Perspective article (published on April 1 at NEJM.org)1 as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less. It is apparent that many people with SARS-CoV-2 infection are asymptomatic or presymptomatic yet highly contagious and that these people account for a substantial fraction of all transmissions.2,3 Universal masking helps to prevent such people from spreading virus-laden secretions, whether they recognize that they are infected or not.4
PlainSpeaking
Brent Bahler 4
fee.org is not exactly an unbiased source (first clue is the article’s headline, second clue is visiting the website and seeing their focus).
yjamesy00
James Y 6
So I think you are cherry picking and presenting a slanted viewpoint. The NEJM has posted this:

“We understand that some people are citing our Perspective article (published on April 1 at NEJM.org)1 as support for discrediting widespread masking. In truth, the intent of our article was to push for more masking, not less.“

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2020836
blt56
blt56 5
It isn't about protecting yourself. It is more about protecting others, especially if you have the virus bot have no symptoms.
pilot62
Scott Campbell 3
We also know that people spit when they talk, and sneeze and cough, if you don't talk, sneeze or cough then you should be exempt - otherwise wear a flipping mask!! WAKE UP
Gorgonzola323
David Schneider 1
Since the vast majority of people would disagree with what you claim you might consider the possibility that you are dead wrong.
gowenfast
david j price 0
Great post with the actual truth
DamirsDad
James Bretney -2
Since when has this crowd ever concerned itself with science or the facts? More fear porn please . . .
tonyevans1
tony evans 22
Irrespective of politics, the airlines have done a super job of improving the flying experience, Enhance cleaning procedures, social distancing the best they can, Improved ventilation with HEPA filtration to mention but a few. The airlines primary responsibility is for the safety and comfort of their Passengers The least we can do is comply with their policy and procedures. You can be disembarked from any flight if you do not follow Flight attendant instruction. We are all aware of the rules before we Fly IF we don't like it Don't board in the first place...
patpylot
patrick baker 8
the anti-science/anti-government factions constitutionally are allowed to spout their ignorance. THey are not allowed to infect others because they are ignorant. The science is solid, the anti-reasons are more emotional than fact based, so who ya gonna believe when dozens of people are stuck in a airliner for a few hours, plenty of time for passing the virus around. sit down, shut up, wear a mask or get off the plane and hitchhike. your choice....
worldavi
worldavi -3
How will someone get infected if they are wearing their mask like they should be if they are concerned with getting sick???! Its a know fact that the cabin air in a modern jet aircraft is safer than in a office building. You can sit next to a person that has Covid and you will not caatch anything, unless you swap spit with them.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 8
The mask is more effective at protecting others. That is the more important known fact. It’s a civic duty.
patpylot
patrick baker 4
so be it. The selfishness and scientific ignorance has a visible measurement in the 700 morons who care not to act in the better interests of fellow citizens and virus candidates. These folks prattle about their rights, ignoring their obligations to their fellow americans and earthlings. Let them walk, ride their bikes or drive their cars to locations served by airlines.NO sympathy.
jdriskell
James Driskell 20
You can't cure stupid!
Quirkyfrog
Robert Cowling 21
Death does, but they might infect others on the way out. Sad... Ironic that masks protect us from them. The purpose of the mask is to keep THEIR infection from infecting others. It's too bad we can't put masks on their social media accounts too. I've seen some off the walls posts from Facebook, and Twitler. Yikes... The collective stupidity is astounding, and depressing.
jdriskell
James Driskell 2
Dumber that two boxes of rocks!

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Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 15
Just below the paragraph you quote are these two paragraphs:

"More compelling is the possibility that wearing a mask may reduce the likelihood of transmission from asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic health care workers with Covid-19 to other providers and patients. This concern increases as Covid-19 becomes more widespread in the community. We face a constant risk that a health care worker with early infection may bring the virus into our facilities and transmit it to others. Transmission from people with asymptomatic infection has been well documented, although it is unclear to what extent such transmission contributes to the overall spread of infection.1-3

"More insidious may be the health care worker who comes to work with mild and ambiguous symptoms, such as fatigue or muscle aches, or a scratchy throat and mild nasal congestion, that they attribute to working long hours or stress or seasonal allergies, rather than recognizing that they may have early or mild Covid-19. In our hospitals, we have already seen a number of instances in which staff members either came to work well but developed symptoms of Covid-19 partway through their shifts or worked with mild and ambiguous symptoms that were subsequently diagnosed as Covid-19. These cases have led to large numbers of our patients and staff members being exposed to the virus and a handful of potentially linked infections in health care workers. Masking all providers might limit transmission from these sources by stopping asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic health care workers from spreading virus-laden oral and nasal droplets."
cyberjet
cyberjet 14
Time to expand your reading choices. Atomized virus (much smaller than droplets) is now considered a significant threat, and while masks don't stop 100% of them from passing through, they stop enough to make it a worthwhile part of the regimen along side distancing, hand washing and keeping one's hands away from their face.
HarrisonV
Harry Venison 10
Wearing a mask is not a political decision, it's an IQ test ;)
ankonaskiff17
Wayne Wells 7
Reading these comments, one thing is pretty obvious.
You can tell who is just watching planes on a monitor, and who is flying.
You aren't flying these days sans mask.
There might also be some folks that are saying one thing but are dutifully putting on a mask like the rest of us snowflakes. A sure way to get fired is for your employer to find out you no longer can fly because you made an ass of yourself and got banned.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 5
All this fighting over a mask? There is actual scientific evidence on both sides of this but the real question to ask is why is it worth fighting over? Lately all over social media and even out in society there has been nothing but division and fighting, weather it’s mask verses non mask? Black verses white? Gay verses straight? Woke verses old values? The list of what divides us goes on and on and to what end? And we making a better society? Or destroying a great society?
Maybe instead of fighting over what divides us we should start looking for things that can bring us together? What good is it to win a fight if it is just going to further destroy us.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 7
Start with getting rid of social media. That has been the biggest divider over the last 15-20 years. Most things were sent via email at one time with the stupid chain emails, but one could quickly delete them. It is different with things like Twitter and Facebook. I am glad I have neither.
jimluntz
JAMES LUNTZ 16
What a small thing to keep from spreading a horrible disease. Keep your Mask on when asked, maintain your distance from others. Typical response from a selfish fool: your have yours on why should I! Such people should not be on a public conveyance, EVER.

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ankonaskiff17
Wayne Wells 10
You always have the option to walk, drive or swim. Do you strip off your shirt and shoes at every private enterprise that has a sign posted "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service?

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azuresc
Lanny Word 3
Be sure and let us know how that turns out on November 4th for you. I’m sure you’ll have another conspiracy theory when it hasn’t Disappeared.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 2
Right, let’s “ignore the real truth”. Is that your three percents worth?
OccamsRazor
Ben Bosley 12
Hope they like Greyhound. They require masks too, so suck it up buttercup.
pilot62
Scott Campbell 1
Well driving now, Greyhound is done
watkinssusan
mary susan watkins 10
the quickest and best fight the entire population has against covid at present is the wearing of masks to prevent spread..you CAN breathe through masks,so arguing you cannot is ridiculous..its very selfish to say im not wearing one,when it takes just a few minutes to put a mask on...
mariofer
mariofer 18
Agreed, I have asthma and been wearing one 10 hours a day for the past 6 months and nothing has happened. If mask were that bad, we would not have surgery staff. Surgery nurses wear them every day for hours on end. All of this controversy boils down to "I don't like to be told what to do"
ankonaskiff17
Wayne Wells -5
These anti-maskers are the very personification of white privilege. They've sailed through life without ever being told how to behave and they don't like it one bit. Yet they go in businesses every day without shucking off their shirts and shoes. Most businesses I know post signs about that.
It's all about the Orange Buffoon. They talk about sheeple and yet they NEVER veer from the path Cheeto sets for them daily.
gzelna
Greg Zelna 3
Its really not a race thing, stupid and selfish comes in all colors....!
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 2
Care to explain the partiers in AOC's Astoria district that were out partying without masks having white privilege? There are idiots on both sides of the aisle, not just one as you seem to think.
Quirkyfrog
Robert Cowling 11
I've seen 6 year-olds at the grocery happy as clams wearing a mask. I've seen 60 year-olds bitch holy hell and whine, and pout over having to wear a mask. Sad...
bentwing60
bentwing60 -5
To know what COPD really is, is to say that a 'mask' doesn't enhance the 'breathing experience'! The effects of an early career in the automotive industry using an AAMCO brake machine to arc grind asbestos brake shoes in unventilated small back rooms at Sears, Western Auto, you name it automotive shops and why W.R.Grace is gone today. With a huge liability tail.

Not to mention the trichloroethylene, MEK and various other 'friendly' solvents and cleaning agents used extensively in the aviation industry that, I, and many other A&Ps were exposed to that may or may not catch up to you in the end.

Your politics does Not go unnoticed here, nor does your lack of compassion for your fellow man.

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paultrubits
paul trubits 9
Then don't wear pants either.

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djsnable
David Snable 15
Read the NEJM editorial comment of July 9, 2020. The Journal is aware of people erroneously using its article to support the non- wearing of masks. In fact, the editors have said wearing masks in public situations reduces the risk of transmitting sars- Covid.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 4
People interpret articles in ways that support their arguement whether it is right or wrong sadly.
gairforce
Gary Ondrey -8
Boy, are you ever naive and uneducated about the facts
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 7
If they end up with lifetime bans, good. Let them learn the hard way. I see people from both sides of the aisle who cannot follow simple instructons such as walk just one way in stores or put on a mask per rules of said stores or other establishments. While there might be rules against racial, sexual/gender bias, etc. Nothing stops businesses from requiring a mask to enter or use those places or in an airline's case, conveyance.

As a person with asthma, I can wear both kinds of masks/respirators and breathe with no issues. If you cannot breathe, go see a doctor to find out why. If you want to fly, just wear a mask or drive to where you want to go until the need for masks is no longer needed. This isn't a political argument, just common sense.
ankonaskiff17
Wayne Wells 8
People say it's political. That is totally irrelevant. A business can set any rules it deems necessary. You may not like it but guess what, Delta is well within their rights to throw you off THEIR aircraft. IT ISN'T UP TO YOU ONCE YOU STEP ON THEIR PROPERTY.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 2
People have made evreything political due to many reasons, starting when GW was elected. It has just gotten worse with each new President sadly and I expect it to get worse in the future, even more sadly.
loopgroup1
Craig Northacker 1
Do they use any Federal funds? If so they must comply with Federal laws which supersede Delta SOP. They must sign a statement to that effect before they get the funds.
loopgroup1
Craig Northacker 1
Terrific you have asthma and can use them. I have toxic poisoning from multiple military exposures and masks have an adverse effect on me. Doctors can only monitor me because there is no cure. I try to comply when I can but there are times I can not keep both nose and mouth covered. One thing that all the science quoting people do not address...the particulate from Covid ranges from .6 to 1.4 microns. N95 masks are good to maybe 2.5 microns. Paper masks may help with colds, but are nowhere near the protective threshold that addresses the particulates. I can assure you that wearing one around Agent Orange and the stuff used creating the Gulf War Illness would not have done one bit of good for me or for anyone else.
Science states what they are paid to state. If you have ever been around research you will know this to be true. Things accepted today as gospel are discounted tomorrow. It has unfortunately become a political tool to the detriment of everyone in the country whatever their beliefs.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 5
Yet the N95 mask is very good at catching droplets expressed by the person wearing the mask. In other words it inhibits infected people from spreading the virus.
737man
737man -3
You literally are just parroting what the media wants you too hahahaha. He proved you wrong, and for another test, go ahead and drink water that just passed through a .3 micron filter that had a .1 micro ebola particle. Enjoy learning that you were lied too!
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 2
Actually I’m paraphrasing from the New England Journal of Medicine as I quoted above in response to Andrew Turnbull. Actual text in the NEJM reads:

“Masking all providers might limit transmission from these sources by stopping asymptomatic and minimally symptomatic health care workers from spreading virus-laden oral and nasal droplets.”
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 2
The use of spray paint lead based paints existed well into the 80's in the military. I thought nothing of spray painting large areas inside "my bird" to keep it looking neat and clean and creating large clouds of spray dust. Many have been exposed to such over the years due to the military's use of said type of paints.

I may have been indirectly asbestos as my own Pops, whom after being in the AF for 20+ years (and exposed to Agent Orange while in 'Nam and being stationed at the base where the units who sprayed it were stationed) went into the HVAC business and used it to insulate the iceboxes used by the crabbers and other businesses that worked the waters of the Chesapeake Bay area. This does not include my own work as an inspector checking on the thickness of piping that were wrapped in asbestos insulation as well.

Hexavalent chrome exposure is also a part of my job and why I have P100 filters for the half face respirators I have. Do I have paper surgical masks? Sure and I wear them as well, but I wear one or the other based upon how long I will be somewhere and what I am doing. Wearing a mask helps to prevent the spread of it to people, who cannot for some medical reason, wear a mask.

Airlines have the right to require the need for a mask by customers using their equipment to get from point A to point B. There are several reasons why they want to mandate all customers wear said masks, first and foremost, protect their own employees. Without pilots and flight attendents, planes do not fly and those who paid for tickets do not go anywhere.

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skiph3
Skip Howlett 3
Fine with me. No mask no service!
vertgreen
Lawrence Green 2
So ... more than 700 irresponsible people will now reduce the risk of the spread.
joselmejia
Jose Mejia 1
Yep, I look forwarded to the days when can squawk about the thrill of aviation like seeing a refurbished F-4 and F-16 placed on static display. They were both in boneyard status and now they look alive again on each of the own static displays. Very cool and amazing!!!
brentaustinlee
Brent Lee 1
I’d never fly on airline without masking...I’ll just not fly until the mask neurotic, paranoid hysteria has passed.
mutrock
Mark Kortum 0
I'm ok with private companies, like airlines, setting rules for behavior on their private property, like airplanes. It is their perogative to set the rules and mine to not use their services if I disagree. That is a fundamental part of freedom. But when the airlines start asking for "Federal mandates" the line is crossed from freedom to tyranny.
dephtones
John Smith -1
The trump virus could have been contained like it was in many other countries. Too bad the US has a “leader” that won’t listen to his appointed cabinet. 190k deaths and on tape saying he was trying to downplay the “hoax”. Talk about sheeple
666adt
Andrew Turnbull -8
FTA: "Since the coronavirus pandemic, all major US airlines have begin requiring passengers over the age of 2 to cover their faces during flights except when drinking, eating or taking medicine, the paper noted."

So in other words, these masks that are likely harboring all sorts of virus and/or bacteria creepy crud are being touched by people's hands multiple times when they eat, drink, and take medicine. Then those hands do...what, exactly? They touch OTHER things. So what we're actually doing is we're EXPANDING the opportunities to spread disease - not just the WuFlu virus, but everything that everyone has inside them that comes out of their noses or mouths.

Great! What could go wrong?!

Say, how many of you know the World Health Organization's mask hygiene recommendations? How many of you have even ever visited the WHO's website to find out just exactly what you should and shouldn't be doing with masks?

Did you know, for example, that the WHO advises you to wash your hands immediately before AND immediately after touching your masks? Probably not. Do you know why they advise that? Of course you do - now - but no one does it. So just imagine for a moment, if you will, all the fingers touching all the masks time after time after time...and then all the things those fingers touch next.

244 years ago you sheeple would've been Loyalists, content to live as subjects rather than as free citizens. Shame on you, for so easily and so obsequiously surrendering your birthright paid for with the blood of your ancestors and countrymen.

Samuel Adams nailed you folks more than two centuries ago:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen."
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 1
Samuel Adams makes a great beer .

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

cyberjet
cyberjet 15
Tell that to my 29 yr old friend. She's a dentist, an avid climber and hiker and taught yoga a few times a week. Now she's facing permanent heart damage because she got it from a patient who knew they were sick but came to their appointment anyways without disclosing it. Probably an anti-masker too.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 12
Hi cyberjet . I am sorry to hear your story . Thats why my original post , was respect for others . I said ,that i may be a unknowing carrier of the Virus ,and it would hurt immensely to give it to another , just because " I have Rights " . No body is trying to take away anyones rights . But we are in a pandemic , and if all that we are being asked ,is to wear a mask , why can't we ? I hope your loved one recovers ..........DGR

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

cyberjet
cyberjet 7
Yes, that's right. People with actual medical degrees and experience in dealing with COVID have acknowledged there are long term health effects for otherwise healthy patients. Do try to keep up with something other than the QAnon "news".
gairforce
Gary Ondrey -9
Covid is a respiratory disease, not a heart disease. People like you, so misinformed, are the biggest problem
PDLanum
Philip Lanum 8
Not able to search much huh?

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-09-closer-covid-heart-complications-athletes.html
737man
737man -3
Medical express??
737man
737man -3
I hate to say it but I don't believe you
Kensterfly
Ken Thompson 4
Yet , doctors and dentists wear masks when treating patients. Your premise is BS. YOU are a sheep to your own chosen agenda.
How sad YOU don’t get this.
Think I’m being political? Think again. I’m very Conservative and haven’t voted Blue for over four decades. However, I CAN think for myself despite the waffling, misguidance we are getting from the White House.
gairforce
Gary Ondrey -8
What I posted is fact!! Not an opinion. Keep drinking the corrupt media Kool-aid.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 0
The only fact expressed in the above comment indicates that perhaps it’s time to seek new doctors and a dentist.
gairforce
Gary Ondrey -6
Ya right !! I have doctors that actually do the research and know what they're talking about, unlike most who are in this for the massive amounts of money they make off of this, and I'll go find another doctor. Sure I will. If I did I might end up with yours
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 1
What research? Show me citations.
azuresc
Lanny Word 1
Facts can actually be backed up bu other actual facts. Care to give us all
These actual facts? So far you are only voicing your opinion. Just like my opinion of you is you are BSC but it would take actual analysis by qualified medical professionals to confirm that as an actual fact.
loopgroup1
Craig Northacker 1
And therein lies the problem. Who is truly qualified? The government used Dr Alvin Young, Dr No, to deny benefits to potentially 2.6 million Vietnam vets plus millions more who were impacted because dioxins are a fact of life on military bases. Plus their family members. He was held to be qualified until a group of highly regarded scientists determined he was not qualified. That did not keep him from getting more government contracts. Government doctors also denied Gulf War Illness, problems from SHAD, MKULTRA, the fact we sent a lot of toxic materials to Iraq, the impact of depleted uranium, etc, etc. Just an observation.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 1
The problem is relying on one scientist or one article instead of seeking a consensus.

Craig, are you familiar with this piece?

https://www.propublica.org/article/alvin-young-agent-orange-va-military-benefits
Jonathantack
Jonathan Tack -1
May all see this !! Yes
winjimusa
Win Helton-harmon 1
My husband and I flew back from Florida on JUne 5, when the virus was ramping up. We had two women sitting behind us on the plane who did not have masks on and never stopped talking for 2.5 hours during our flight. NO one did anything to them. It was very disturbing and dangerous for all the other passengers on the plane. I wish the flight attendants said something.
Wingrat
Phil Alexander 1
OK then I guess refusing to wear a mask Deserves being kicked off and if you’re dumb enough and obnoxious enough probably banned for life you earned it you deserve it. Then of course I also assume that if you refuse to wear a mask then you’re also not going to use the brakes on your car anymore or Stop at stop signs and try to fly your plane without wings. Just grow up wearing a mask isn’t going to ruin your life It might even save it.
gowenfast
david j price 0
It's not about masking up, or not. It's more about denying guaranteed civil liberties. If you feel the need to wear the highly ineffective mask, please do so, just don't force me to. Imagine, if you will, a virus so deadly that the survival rate is about 99%, and in most cases, you have to get tested to even find out if you have the Black Plague. Totally unnecessary, and unreasonable.
gairforce
Gary Ondrey 0
Right on Dave ! A virus so deadly that it can be eliminated by washing your hands with ordinary soap and water for 20 secs. My freedom doesn't end when your fear begins !!
gowenfast
david j price 2
Gary...There you go using your brain again..:-)
Mmeyers7167
Michael Meyers 1
Ahhhh, this MAGA on display!
pilot62
Scott Campbell 1
I wish it was higher, last night from Houston to the West coast 3 people around took it off for most of the flight, the FA up front as well.
lecompte2
lecompte2 -1
Pretty sad indication of what our society has become under the TV world of Trump. If you think the mask doesn't help, just admit it doesn't hurt and it helps others.
loopgroup1
Craig Northacker 2
But setting up a presidential led group to undermine the new President is ok? Why do people not look at facts on both sides and demand accountability from both sides? The failure to do that is killing our country.
gowenfast
david j price -3
I have no problem if you want to wear a mask, but that doesn't give anyone the right to violate our civil freedoms, and make wearing 1 mandatory.
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 3
You have no right to infect other people with a dangerous disease.
loopgroup1
Craig Northacker 1
But its OK that millions of veterans and their family members suffered and died because on one stood up for them?
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 1
That’s not ok.
patpylot
patrick baker 2
civil freedoms my ass- the virus can be spread before any symptoms of the carrier are in evidence, and if you had not slept through virology class you would remember this. Masking is a small intrusion, a termporary one until the spread of the virus is halted, then eradicated. You will get over it. Make your case when some real intrusion occurs warping your civil rights- but i will make noises before you do if that is the case.
gairforce
Gary Ondrey -4
My freedom doesn't end when your fear begins !!
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 6
Your freedom ends when your actions endanger others.
gairforce
Gary Ondrey -3
Nothing..NOTHING is more important than our freedom !! Stay at home if you're so afraid! That's still your choice!
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 5
What freedom is being infringed here? Are you also having infantile tantrums about having to wear pants in public? Or no longer being allowed to dump your chamber pot in the street?
gairforce
Gary Ondrey -5
I won't waste my time commenting on your last post. So pathetic. Good luck snowflake
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 6
So not only can’t you supply citations to your assertion that wearing a mask is detrimental to your health, it also appears your can’t articulate what sacred freedom is abridged by your being asked to wear a mask to protect those around you during a pandemic being spread by people refusing to wear masks in public. Seems your rebellion is totally without cause. How puerile!
lecompte2
lecompte2 2
It appears your perception of events around you indicate your IQ is about the same as your idol Trump. Too bad
sconklan
sconklan -9
We used to worry about Big Brother but the Karens that run the Tech companies, the airlines, and everything else are worse. I would and do wear the slave mask, but I know it is a scam.
rdlink
rdlink 2
So you're a moron, then.
666adt
Andrew Turnbull -8
The New England Journal of Medicine might consider YOU to be the moron:

"We know that wearing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection. Public health authorities define a significant exposure to Covid-19 as face-to-face contact within 6 feet with a patient with symptomatic Covid-19 that is sustained for at least a few minutes (and some say more than 10 minutes or even 30 minutes). The chance of catching Covid-19 from a passing interaction in a public space is therefore minimal."

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006372
ankonaskiff17
Wayne Wells 9
First off, that is a Letter to the Editor OPINION article.

Second is is the banner right at the top of the article and I quote

"Editor’s Note: This article was published on April 1, 2020, at NEJM.org. In a letter to the editor on June 3, 2020, the authors of this article state “We strongly support the calls of public health agencies for all people to wear masks when circumstances compel them to be within 6 ft of others for sustained periods.”

An airplane certainly fits the criteria since no one knows if they are sick at that moment. and you are way less than 6 ft from each other for sustained periods.

You really should read things like that before you post something that isn't saying what you think its saying.
Lneward
Lance Neward 6
Like the Bible, NEJM can be misinterpreted by those who start with a foregone conclusion. NEJM says that masks don't protect the WEARER, and virtually any person knowledgeable in the subject will tell you that. They're not intended to protect the wearer, they're intended to protect the community at large FROM the wearer, and if everyone wears a mask, whether or not they are symptomatic, the risk to the world at large is thus minimized. That assumes, of course, that one cares about anyone else.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 7
your such a dope . Clearly you see this as a Democratic / Republican deal . It's your badge of Honour not to wear a mask cause for you it's more a political statement ,more than anything else . I can't add much more to this , with-out getting rude .
rdlink
rdlink 4
No need to add any more. The first sentence said it all. He's a dope.
DGR54Rathborne
DGR Rathborne 10
Thank-you for your support . But if i might add this . I remember the Glory Days of the people of the USA where every-one pulled together as one , to achieve great things in life . Now it has fallen into disarray where every-one is out for himself , and everything is a conspiracy . What went wrong ?
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 3
What went wrong? Politics.
saso792
saso792 4
Hope you don't mind me adding to your's with, "Politics without term limits."
ftldave
Dave Underwood -3
Politics in America, you should say. Other countries, Canada for example, have had a much more sane and effective response to the pandemic.
ewrcap
David Beattie 1
Yes. He can’t even spell you’re!
roberteddy
Rob Hopkins 5
Liar.
The actual valid and verified data proves the efficacy of masks in reducing the spread of corona virus.

Go back to your moms basement.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

ankonaskiff17
Wayne Wells 10
Editor’s Note: This article was published on April 1, 2020, at NEJM.org. In a letter to the editor on June 3, 2020, the authors of this article state “We strongly support the calls of public health agencies for all people to wear masks when circumstances compel them to be within 6 ft of others for sustained periods.”
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 10
If you had any reading comprehension, you’d notice that the paragraph you keep parroting concerns the wearing of a mask as protection from others, whereas the purpose of wearing a mask in public is to protect others from you. Why do you think surgeons wear masks? Grow up, learn to read, and have a little compassion for those around you.
winjimusa
Win Helton-harmon 2
That is incorrect. My niece is a nurse. They know that the virus is aerosolized now which means that it remains in the air outside for up to 15-30 minutes (especially is air is still). So if you walk in the space where someone who has the virus has passed through WITHOUT a mask, you are in danger of inhaling those viral bodies into your lungs and getting COVID. Masks protect us from the viruses.
737man
737man -4
Lol it was 9 days, then 1 day, then 4 hours, now 15-30 mins, whatever. Nobody knows what their talking about.
Highflyer1950
Highflyer1950 1
Hmm, you mean you can’t catch what you already have......Brilliant!
captainjoec
Joe Chambers -5
Banned? How exactly? I was banned at AA for life for other reasons and guess what? I changed my first name and now I'm a AA Captain. You can also use your middle name as your first name when creating a new PNR and guess what? Banning is gone. Good luck to all of you wearing a mask, getting acidosis and killing your immune system. I do have a Bachelor's degree on Medical Sciences. Do not Google for help, get a real medical book and read how the immune system works along with the Pulmonary System.
azuresc
Lanny Word 2
As someone who just told the world they are a liar and dishonest person, not sure I’d take much stock in your medical opinion. You should probably ask for a refund for that “Medical Sciences” degree you say you received, if you actually have one. It’s not really anything useable anyway. More of a Cliff’s Notes for students to narrow down the actual field of study they want to pursue. But I’m sure you know that by now. Not that you actually said anything other than insinuating that masks can cause respiratory issues, which they don’t. But not wearing one can definitely cause quite a few, including COVID-19.
gairforce
Gary Ondrey -6
Joe, you are so exactly right. I am shocked at how uneducated and ignorant people are to these dangers you refer to. Those two illnesses you mentioned are FAR more likely to kill you than this virus which has a factual kill rate of less than 1%. Very few purple like you and i are interested in learning what this is really about. My freedom doesn't end, when these people's fear begins
azuresc
Lanny Word 5
For someone who loves to use “facts “ and “factual” a lit, you never seem to have any. Just to clarify things, he never actually mentioned two illnesses or even one for that matter. Nothing he stated is FAR more likely to to kill you. Although, him scamming the system to become a pilot for AA might.
grosseair
John Grosse -1
Good for you, Joe. What's your DOH? Maybe we can do something about that?
worldavi
worldavi -5
If you have a compromised immune system YOU shouldnt be flying or going out in public with the expectation that everyone will save you. That is not how life works. Be concerned for yourself and your family. Do not infringe on the rights of others. Unless this was a "true" pandemic which was accelerating and really killing mostly healthy people, then it would be a concern. 53,000 people on average die in a month from all sorts of reasons. The majority of people dying from COVID 19, 96% of them were already ill with severe issues. Think back to the times when you were in bed with the flu, and you lived right? Well many people with severe sickness catch that same flu that put YOU in bed....it would also kill them as well. We now know that COVID 19 was turned into a political stunt all across the world. Ever wonder why we do not hear about the big money policy people speaking out? George Soros? Hmmmmm...
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 4
Blah, blah, blah...... Please explain how wearing a mask infringes on your freedom.
Wingrat
Phil Alexander 4
I believe the science. It is a pandemic. It is not a political stunt.
gowenfast
david j price -3
If you truly believed the science, you would know there is no "plandemic". A total fabrication by politics, without a doubt. Incite fear! Take away guaranteed civil liberties! Confiscate guns!..Comply Comrade, or face the consequences!!
Pachypodium
David Kozlowski 3
If you have science to back you up, show us the citations, snowflake.
ewrcap
David Beattie -3
You notice all of these great patriotic, stand up for your rights heroes never argue with the TSA. They are good “sheeple” as they love to say. No, they are complete cowards, unwilling to stand up to the oppressors who are the TSA and Armed airport security. They know they will end up in jail or perhaps be shot. But, let them on to the airplane where the rule keepers are unarmed women and often gay men and they become the great super fighters for their constitution rights! Come on you righty snowflakes! Take on the TSA and the airport police! Show us all what heroic revolutionaries you are!
worldavi
worldavi 2
You make no sense at all. TSA rules are grounded in laws written and approved by Congress. Wearing a mask is and has not been made lawfull.
WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 5
In a way it has. In Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U.S. 11 (1905) the SCotUS stated that rules/laws can be made by localities where needed for medical reasons by the local boards of health. While the actual case was over a fine, the justices stated that vaccinations can be required to prevent the spread of a deadly disease (in this case, smallpox). While the plantiff didn't have to get the shot, he did have to pay the fine.

Other SCotUS cases have affirmed the above. While flying is done by private companies, they have the power under law to dictate what transpires on their equipment. If they require masks, they are allowed to state such since they are allowed to protect their employees at the minimum.
jcguil
Joe Guilfoyle 0
Actually, it's the CCP virus, not the 'Trump virus.' And Sweden didn't seem to have a problem with no lockdown.
worldavi
worldavi -1
Stop with this mask BS. You wear a mask if you feel you need to protect yourself. It is not a symbol to be worn to show your support for other people. If you think its easier to catch a virus on todays aircraft, I have some koolaid for you to drink.
jdrpc
Joao Ponces -1
Continue like this, there will be NO Airline Industry to talk about! How more stupid can you get???

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