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  • 28

Qantas, Virgin Australia ban 'Knee Defender'

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Qantas and Virgin Australia have banned the controversial Knee Defender dongle which prevents economy seats from reclining. (www.ausbt.com.au) 更多...

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ozmuzz
Time for a passenger "Bill of Rights" to stop the airlines configuring < 34" pitch in economy
nasdisco
Chris B 8
I can see a lawyer arguing that he paid for a seat that reclines.
Therefore the device should be removed.
But I'll be happy to get moved to first class instead.
DeborahBurger
It is so sad that "we" are focusing on our fellow travelers, who are ALL suffering on the trip. Too small seats, cramped quarters, alleged food for purchase, not enough circulated air, no real alternatives for entertaining, extra chargers just for normal amounts of luggage, delayed flights(often canceled) due to whatever lies the airlines make up. not to mention the short staffed crews who are responsible for trying to keep all of us calm in such stressful travel!
Why don't we turn our anger towards the real problem, the Airline industry! They cram more and more people together for more profits, and somehow expect the flights to go smoothly? I am amazed at just how few people really do go postal, given all of these problems with airline travel. They have laws about space, treatment and conditions for livestock, why not air line travelers?
gunfitr
I agree. I have a friend (in his late 50s)that had to fly from Ont. CA. To So. Carolina (via Huston) for a family function. First time in his life he has ever flown. I asked him what he thought of it and he said never again. He said he would walk across the country rather than fly again. This was on American Airlines but that makes no difference.
And the airlines can't figure out why their sales are down?
pianist337
You're only getting what you wanted to pay for. People want to fly from NY to LA for $99. Jet-A is between $5-$6/gal. and airplanes are hideously expensive. They're also more powerful and can carry more weight. So this is what you get: Low fares, fast transportation, crammed in like sardines. They're a business. They have to make money on each flight, on each passenger. This is the way the public has asked them to do it. Quit whining.
gunfitr
I'm just talking about a gentleman who had never flown before and he said he never will fly again. Not the best way to gain customers.
pianist337
Kurt, I was actually replying to Deborah, but I see my response was posted below yours. I'm sorry about your friend's experience, but what I said still applies. Airplanes are very powerful these days and can carry enormous weight. People have "voted with their wallets" as some like to say, and shown they will only buy tickets from whoever is the lowest price on any given day. In order to get those lower fares, more people have to be carried on each flight. If regulation returned [and I'm not a fan of that], seat size and spacing would be set by the government, and fares would return to the level where only the relatively rich could afford to fly. We just can't have it both ways.
siriusloon
siriusloon 5
Ryanair is probably buying thousands of them to rent to its passengers.
Peapop
Art Murray 4
I was on two Delta flights last week and NONE of the seats reclined...unless you paid EXTRA to get a seat that did. No recline probably added a row or two to the completely full 737. I'm a multi-million mile flyer and getting tired of this crap.
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 2
Check out the price of a train to the same destination. You may be surprised to see it costs almost as much, maybe more, and eats into about a week of your time. If you can stand sitting straight for a couple of hours (it's probably not a bad thing to do), it becomes apparent it's not really crap but rather, a pretty darned good deal.
gunfitr
Then pay for business or first class and stop whining.
gunfitr
Take a horse.
sgbelverta
sharon bias 4
I'd prefer a stay on your side of the arm rest defender.

ClintBurke
Clint Burke 4
BAN reclining seats! Problem solved. In the name of safety. The fact there are no reclining seats in the emergency exit rows is to remove any restrictions for emergency egress. This should apply to all rows.
rpplano
My exit row seat on AA yesterday reclined nicely. A fairly new 738.
watkinssusan
WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SOME CARRIERS,SUCH AS THE ILL FATED MALAYSIA AIRLINES( WHO HAS LOST THE MAJORITY OF THEIR BUSINESS DUE TO THE TWO CRASHES)THE AIRLNES ARE FOR THE MOST PART GOING OUT WITH FULL FLIGHTS..IN ORDER TO GET FROM POINT A TO POINT B IN MANY CASES,A PERSON MUST FLY INSTEAD OF DRIVE,AND MOST OF US DO NOT HAVE THE LUXURY OF A PRIVATE JET..ALL THE AIRLINES FOLLOW REGULATIONS WITH REGARD TO SAFETY SUCH AS THE NUMBER OF FLGHT ATTENDANTS ON BOARD,THE NUMBER OF COCKPIT CREW MWMBERS ON BOARD,OXYGEN MASKS,LIFE VESTS AND LIFE RAFTS ,THE NUMBER OF EMERGENCY EXITS ON AN AIRCRAFT,AND WHO IS ALLOWED TO BE SEATED IN THOSE EXITS,JUMPSEATS FOR CREW MEMBERS,AND THE TRAINING REQUIRED FOR BOTH THE FLIGHT ATTENDANTS AND COCKPIT CREWS..AIRLINES ARE REGULATED..YES..BUT AS FAR AS AMENITIES SUCH AS MEALS,LEGROOM,"ENTERTAINMENT",OVERHEAD BIN SPACE,AND YES,EVEN CUSTOMER SERVICE,IT IS UP TO EACH INDIVIDUAL AIRLINE TO PROVIDE,AS AN INDEPENDENT BUSINESS,WHAT THEY FEEL THE CUSTOMERS WANT AND OR NEED..AS WE HAVE SEEN, IF ONE AIRLINE STARTS CHARGING BAGGAGE FEES FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN OVERWEIGHT OR OVERSIZED,THEY ALL DO(AND FOR THOSE WHO SWEAR BY SOUTHWEST AIRLINES AS THE MODEL,THEY TOO ARE TRYING TO COMPETE WITH THE "BIG BOYS" AND ARE NO LONGER THE LITTLE FUN CARRIER THEY WERE)..IN MY YEARS AS AN EMPLOYEE OF A LARGE CARRIER,IT WAS NOT JUST THE AIRLINES OR EMPLOYEES THAT CHANGED,THE CUSTOMERS DID AS WELL..WE WENT FROM COURTEOUS,NICELY DRESSED PASSENGERS WHO TREATED THE EMPLOYEES WITH RESPECT,TO PEOPLE IN CUT OFFS,FLIP FLOPS,T SHIRTS ETCETERA(I ONCE HAD A LADY IN HAIR ROLLERS.PAJAMAS AND SLIPPERS)..THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO FLY WITH A "ME FIRST" ATTITUDE WHETHER ITS CUTTING IN LINE,PUSHING TO BOARD FIRST,USING 2 BINS FOR OVERHEAD LUGGAGE,OR PUTTING THEIR SEAT BACK TO RECLINE TO THE POINT OF TAKING SOMEONE ELSES SPACE..THE AIRLINES ARE A BUSINESS FIRST AND FOREMOST..THEY ARE NOT A RESTAURANT,A THEATER OR YOUR LVING ROOM..AS A BUSINESS,IF ENOUGH COMPLAINTS ARE RECEIVED ABOUT SEATS,THE ONLY SOLUTION IS TO MAKE THEM ALL NON-RECLINING..I TOO HAVE BEEN IN SMALL CARDBOARD SEATS WITH SOMEONE SPREADING OUT NEXT TO ME AND THE ONE IN FRONT RECLINING..I UNDERSTAND THE DISCOMFORT AND THE COMPLAINTS...
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 3
Wow! That just may be the longest and tallest sentence I've ever seen!
watkinssusan
my apologies if you were offended awaalum (aa for american airlines perhaps?) i had the caps lock on and i forgot to change back to lower case..my comments are from the heart and they do encompass more than one sentence..by using bullet points it isn't necessary to capitalize and paragraph every thought or sentence..if you disagree with my comments,that is fine..just say so..
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
P.S. No one bother to read this other than mary susan, as it goes into the grammar issue again (groan). Mary Susan, I'll try in the nicest possible way to explain to you it's really of no importance to me, but perhaps it will be useful to you - you haven't used bullet points, you have used ellipses, and ellipses aren't used in place of periods. I'd go into the how and why but you can just as easily google it.

Now - I'd think you'd have a thicker skin having worked in the industry for those 30 years, but I truly wasn't bashing you. As I read on and on and on and on through your post, I couldn't help but laugh. You made your point, and you also made me laugh. Nothing wrong with that. Is there?
watkinssusan
no..glad I made you laugh..years in the airline business does not necessarily promote "thicker skin"..it depends on what type of person you are to begin with..there are many "internet trolls" on various sites whose sole enjoyment is not making intelligent conversation or commenting on an article,but rather making nasty or rude comments and downgrading others..i trust you are not one of those awaalum...by the way, I do have a college education and when I write,my sole purpose is not to correct someone on their grammar or writing style,but to comment on a particular topic from my viewpoint..back to the topic at hand..cardboard seats ..no..courtesy..yes..reclining onto someone ..no...making them all non reclining..yes..
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
Can't imagine where you came up with "offended". I thought it was hysterical.
CaptJohn1
CaptJohn1 1
I am old enough to remember the days when flying was actually enjoyable, you looked forward to it. A lot has changed since then, yes the seats are too small, and the rows are just too close. But the passangers have changed as well, their rude, obnoxious and self centered. I don't need the passanger next to me to be dressed like their going to a wedding, but give me a break, plenty look like they just rolled out of bed and never bothered to change, others look like their heading to the gym. They ignore the flight attendants and have so much carry on luggage they look like their fleeing the country. Not to mention screaming kids whos parents refuse to control. The whole overall experiance is about the same as taking a Greyhound bus. It's gotten to the point that I just don't want to get on a plane anymore, driving is starting to become the preferred means of transportation over flying (to a point). And when I have to, if I can get a business class or first class seat for not a ton of money more, I'll buy it if I have to. But I must admit that I am just not traveling as much as I once did because of just how bad the, "flying experiance" has become. And I'm sure I am not alone.
jet4ang
jet4ang 1
Good! The knee defender violates my seat as it attaches to it. I paid for that seat and if someone is violating my space, then I'll get up and remove it myself. It's a crock of shit!
FrankDHooge
support the hard shell seats!!
PRJD
Cris Orengo 1
When I purchase (rent?) an airplane seat, I do so with expectation of its full functionality and that includes a recline function as designed by the manufacturer. I will use it as I deem fit if I so desire and without impediment. I will however politely inform my back seated passenger that I will recline the seat so as to not inadvertently crush a laptop screen or spill a drink on the person who has their tray down. I will also take into consideration if they are exceptionally tall or otherwise will be physically discomforted by my reclining that 1 1/2 inch of recline. The problem is not with the passengers per say but with the penny pinching airlines who crammed too many seats and still offer the recline. That is who you should take up your complaints with. My solution would be to eliminate the recline for all.
ClintBurke
Clint Burke 1
BAN reclining seats....problem solved!
iflyrjs
We banned them as well as UA did years ago
gunfitr
OK but who are you?
tcmarks
Tim Marks -1
At 6'3" and 275 lbs I can barely fit into the sardine-can cramped space of anyone's economy seating anymore - and don't go on about getting into business class, please pay me for the difference in price. In the old days (1980s) there was plenty of legroom, elbowroom and sholder space to sit upright and squarely in a seat - and enough space that someone reclining a seat in front of you did not crush your knees or have their unwashed hair in your face. Short/tiny people do not understand how uncomfortable a 4 to 8 hour flight is with someone sleeping on your knees - I will be buy a set of these before my next flight.
valleygrove
not very smart - you can end up in jail. The business seat will look very cheap then!
devsfan
ken young 1
On many carriers you would be considered a "customer of size"...Meaning, you buy two seats or you fly first class.
People who are larger than the capacity of the seat and rows are subject to the additional costs incurred to transport them from one place to the other....Sorry.
If you want space, you have to pay for it or .....Drive.
JCMIA
Well I am 6'1" at 200 pounds. Last time I flew it was economy class from MIA to NRT with a layover at DFW. Yes, in economy class because I do not fly enough to qualify for upgrades and business / first class is expensive. Anyway, if I have a problem with the person in front of me reclining their seat I would book a seat behind a non reclining row. And if I have a reclining seat that is not my fault. So if you clamp this device to it what compensation are you going to give me? Probably nothing. And will you recline your seat? Probably. But I am sure you do it for a valid reason. Bottom line is I am tall too, and I cant say my biggest complaint is the person in front of me reclining their seat. In fact it has never been a problem. I recline mine too. I would imagine the person behind me does the same. And so on in that manner all the way back to the unfortunate person in the back row that cant recline AND has to sit next to the lavatory that will probably overflow or always have a line of people waiting so you always have a butt somewhere near your face. But no, you cant put a face defender on the lavatory door to prevent that.
pjt008
Paul Thomas 1
But you will still recline your own seat, yes? It's this entitlement mentality that is fueling the breakdown of a polite society.
Viperguy46
Well, you can't do anything about the 6'3" problem but can do something about the 275 #'s!
I'm 6'2"and 210# and never recline my seat more than "one" notch! Try the window seat and put your legs along the airframe.
Works for me!
evd46
In the old days (1980s) not many people weighted 275lbs either...
That's the real problem!
karlaudenaerde
In my flying days (a few million miles) I was 6"3 and 175 lbs (distance runner), and I could barely fit in an airline seat then. Let's not talk about now...
tcmarks
Tim Marks -1
Small/tiny people did not, but football players do, and unless you are this big you cannot fathom trying to fit into the 90% sizing of the rest of the world.
MargaretRivers
Lose weight
devsfan
ken young 0
I have flown dozen of times. Not once have I reclined my seat. I purposely buy window seat so i can lean on the fuselage and go to sleep.
The few times when an "intrusive" recliner in front of me has decided my space is "his" space, i gave the beck of the seat a good snap shove. The intrusive moron, got the message. Recline. But recline politely.
Quite frankly, if it were up to me, I'd increase the leg room by a few inches. lost a couple of rows and make the seats non reclining.....Problem solved.
If you want to recline, fly another carrier.
StevePittinger
At 6'5" with most of that height in my legs, I've considered getting one of these. On more than one occasion, I've had the expletive expletive in the seat in front of me do a full recline 5 seconds into the climb-out, smashing my kneecaps.

Fortunately, in all the travel I've done, the remainder of pax in cattle class recline very little if at all, because they realize that we're not all the same size and we're not all rich enough to fly in one-percent class.
watkinssusan
I find it difficult to relax or sleep when I am flying..you cannot stretch out into the aisle in an aisle seat or you block it, and unless you have your own pillow,you cant really rest against the wall or window in a window seat..if you put down your tray table to try and read a magazine or book,it is extremely cramped,particularly if the person in front of you has even slightly reclined their seat..basically airplane seating (with the exception of the newest aircraft with the "sleeper" business and first class seats)is not made for comfort..they all feel like you are sitting on a cardboard box with a cushion..with regard to being large and heavy, airplane seats have basically been sized for the "average" sized woman or man by the weight charts used for weights and balances, which is around 70 pounds or less for a child,175 or so for a man, and 125 or so for a woman..i will tell you that when football teams or basketball teams or whatever, do a charter with an airlne,seats are removed to give them the "extra" leg and body room they need for being tall and or heavy..i am inclined to agree with making all of the seats non reclining,which would be fair to everyone..not everyone can get the exit row which adds a few inches,nor do they have the money to pay the extra fee..the same goes for bulkhead seating where you could at least stretch out a little more..
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 1
I agree. Seats were made to recline years ago when they were spaced in a more realistic pattern. As airlines became less and less profitable, and they were reconfigured to carry more and more passengers, the reclining seats should have gone away. I'm not very tall, even so, I kind of inwardly groan when the seat back in front of me begins coming towards me. Fortunately, my experience has been that for the past several years, people are more aware of the discomfort reclining causes, and 9 times out of 10 they usually leave their seats upright.

I read just yesterday an American Airlines flight had to turn around (I'm not certain, but I think it was a Texas to Paris flight) because a physical fight broke out over someone using these "knee defenders".
MargaretRivers
Perhaps each airline should be required (for disclosure reasons) to have a model of the aircraft seat somewhere at the check-in point - a model of economy with the seat reclined - enough that people can sit on and try before "they buy" or check in. Airlines with "economy plus" will sell more of those seats (which would be terrible for us non-rev's). Oversized people have to pay more for clothes -and food - and car size - thus is life - they may need to pay more for roomier airline seats. In any event - oversized people get to spill out over the armrests etc, taking up the space that I paid for. Like larger carry-on bags that have to be shown to fit "into model holder", larger people might have to show they can fit into the seat, or be required to pay for the next size up. Perhaps, during a booking, not only date and time, but also "normal or extra large" seat should be a required click down specification rather than have to resolve this issue on the flight. This way, everyone knows exactly what they are paying for before they buy - what a concept@ It's a danger, too. I've had very fat unhealthy people sitting in the aisle seat. In the even of an emergency, how the heck am I, or my child, supposed to get out from the window seat? These same people manage to squeeze into a commuter airline seat (which is much more expensive per mile), but when it comes to the major's, they have a complaint about the size of the seat. These seats haven't changed in the last 50 years (sad, but true), so it should be no surprise to the oversized that they just won't fit in the seat. Alternatively, if more than one oversized seat is purchased (online, for example), they should be made to sit together with the armrests up so as not to disrupt the comfort of the majority of the other passengers.

[This poster has been suspended.]

davidrbarnes
Aside from your diatribe against Australia, you managed to FURTHER demonstrate your ignorance by claiming, quite erroneously, that US carriers allow these devices to be used.

You are the weakest link. Goodbye!
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 3
You would do well to familiarize yourself with this word: R-E-S-P-E-C-T
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll -2
RESPECT went out the door when Nobama was elected!
AWAAlum
AWAAlum 4
Don't be ridiculous. He may be to blame for some things, but you're getting way carried away.
yr2012
matt jensen 0
Most US carriers don't say whether they allow them or not. For them it's new. For us it's 13 yr old product. It has other uses too.
MACGSO
MACGSO 3
"Other uses"? Like what?

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